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[KiltedCupid]

BeaR - that's interesting and I wonder if, I light of Clovie's post about utro being stopped in Scotland, they'll consider a generic here as obviously cost will be different?

I'm sure you mentioned something on another post about generics becoming a reality in the UK as they are in US. Although most ladies in US seem to prefer branded products according to their websites.

Does make you wonder also if this hrt shortage is part of something other than Brexit stockpiling. It's really becoming quite harsh and unfair on one particular demographic.

[bear]

Hi KiltedCupid,

Sorry, I had to remove my previous post because the link to the article wasn't working.

Here it is:

Hi girls,

I forgot to say that the article I quoted above https://reader.elsevier.com/reader/sd/pii/S1472648318300555'token=50A3283062E23F2E8F4815C44F54BA1F1FF983FE76C21059F0DD65DA7F5FB1DC54F30EC1A81641506F3F9AE8F2ECC6F0 mentions the generic version of Utrogestan, called Progestan, marketed in France by Laboratoires Besins International.

'The following vaginal progesterone preparations used as monotherapy for LPS in assisted reproductive technology cycles were eligible: Utrogestan Vaginal (including Progestan and publications where the brand of micronized progesterone preparation was not specified but known to be Utrogestan Vaginal; in addition, Prometrium and Progeffik were considered to be equivalent preparations), Cyclogest, Crinone and Lutigest (including Endometrin and Lutinus).'

I didn't know that Besins had a generic progesterone oral/vaginal capsule, not to mention other manufacturers' generics (Mylan, Sandoz, Biogaran). Apparently the other manufacturers had their products withdrawn (Ratiopharm and Teva).

https://www.vidal.fr/actualites/4239/progestan_ge_100_mg_et_200_mg_capsules_molles_orales_ou_vaginales_nouveaux_medicaments_generiques/

BearR.

[Hurdity]

Do you know if it's available, even off licence, for hrt use?

Hi kilted cupid – I think you must have missed my post made soon after yours. If you look after the one of yours I've quoted I responded to your general question (above) about Crinone – and its use as part of HRT including studies into endometrial effects as well as saying it is available . If you are wanting info about it then do have a look at these studies – and the thread on vaginal progesterone (now on the next page) as there are several very relevant references to Crinone as HRT.

... and bear re the dosage – maybe also check out the refs if you are interested? You will see from the studies in my earlier post that they were carried out using  4 % Crinone which is 45 mg (now no longer available) but the trials used 45 mg per day in sequential treatment and 45 mg twice a week in continuous combined therapy – so this is far less than the 100 mg daily Utrogestan - even at double the strength maybe even less could be used than for these trials? It is described as a sustained release gel which is why lower amounts are needed than eg for Utrogestan.

Here is an extract from the particulars I linked to in my post:

“5.2 Pharmacokinetic properties
The progesterone vaginal gel is based on a polycarbophil delivery system which attaches to the vaginal mucosa and provides a prolonged release of progesterone for at least three days.”

The daily dose of 90 mg is for luteal support during pregnancy – so the amount required for HRT could be as little as one third of that.

Obviously the trials were not using this concentration but since it would be prescribed off-licence anyway I imagine gynaes who do prescribe it have worked out a possible dosage – based on the research trials, and the properties of the gel,. There is a danger of more of a “hit” (ie comparable with Utrogestan 100 mg) with one dose – but if it was not taken every day it may not be such an issue. Information about the systemic absorption would also be necessary to help understand whether side effects might be experienced comparable with the dosage – I also mentioned that in my other earlier post.

I hope this is helpful Kilted cupid and to anyone else considering Crinone – seem to have strayed away for the topic of Lutigest!

Hurdity x

[bear]

Hi KiltedCupid,

Yes, generally speaking generics are always cheaper than the branded version, so it's good news for the NHS and everyone!

Regarding Brexit... I've just come across this webpage on shortages in Belgium, more than 600 meds! That tells us Brexit is just one complicating factor but not the real culprit of shortages. I suspect the UK overreliance on HRT imports from EU members (the technical term is 'arrival', because the EU is considered one country, so whilst the UK is part of the EU, these are not considered imports), and of course, the parallel import, is the main reason why drug shortages had such a profound effect on HRT products in the UK.

Oops, forgot to post the link http://banquededonneesmedicaments.fagg-afmps.be/#/query/supply-problem/human

BeaR.

[bear]

Do you know if it's available, even off licence, for hrt use?

... and bear re the dosage – maybe also check out the refs if you are interested? You will see from the studies in my earlier post that they were carried out using  4 % Crinone which is 45 mg (now no longer available) but the trials used 45 mg per day in sequential treatment and 45 mg twice a week in continuous combined therapy – so this is far less than the 100 mg daily Utrogestan - even at double the strength maybe even less could be used than for these trials? It is described as a sustained release gel which is why lower amounts are needed than eg for Utrogestan.

Here is an extract from the particulars I linked to in my post:

“5.2 Pharmacokinetic properties
The progesterone vaginal gel is based on a polycarbophil delivery system which attaches to the vaginal mucosa and provides a prolonged release of progesterone for at least three days.”

The daily dose of 90 mg is for luteal support during pregnancy – so the amount required for HRT could be as little as one third of that.

Obviously the trials were not using this concentration but since it would be prescribed off-licence anyway I imagine gynaes who do prescribe it have worked out a possible dosage – based on the research trials, and the properties of the gel,. There is a danger of more of a “hit” (ie comparable with Utrogestan 100 mg) with one dose – but if it was not taken every day it may not be such an issue. Information about the systemic absorption would also be necessary to help understand whether side effects might be experienced comparable with the dosage – I also mentioned that in my other earlier post.

Hurdity x

Hi there,

Since the 4% presentation is no longer available, I don't think this is relevant any more.

BeaR.

[Hurdity]

Of course it's relevant bear! Kilted cupid asked a question specifically about crinone as part of hRt and  have posted the information that I have found re the research and its availability. The 4% has not been available since not long after I first came across it on this forum - probably more than 8 years but the study was quoted in the recent review of progestogens and their effect on the endometrium so the menopause academics seem to think it's relevant. Like I said the dose concentration in the research is lower than currently available but this makes it all the more interesting because lower doses appear to be effective in that particular trial so may not be associated with quite the same side effects. Like I said with the 8 % you would get more of a hit but still worth investigating as kilted cupid seems to want to try?

Kilted cupid? is the information I have provided helpful to your quest? re the generics issue - I posted about this recently ref Jeremy Corbyn's proposal at labout Party conference - and posted elsewhere about this the other day - briefly!

Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

Of course it's relevant bear! Kilted cupid asked a question specifically about crinone as part of hRt and  have posted the information that I have found re the research and its availability. The 4% has not been available since not long after I first came across it on this forum - probably more than 8 years but the study was quoted in the recent review of progestogens and their effect on the endometrium so the menopause academics seem to think it's relevant. Like I said the dose concentration in the research is lower than currently available but this makes it all the more interesting because lower doses appear to be effective in that particular trial so may not be associated with quite the same side effects. Like I said with the 8 % you would get more of a hit but still worth investigating as kilted cupid seems to want to try?

Kilted cupid? is the information I have provided helpful to your quest? re the generics issue - I posted about this recently ref Jeremy Corbyn's proposal at labout Party conference - and posted elsewhere about this the other day - briefly!

Hurdity x

I'm afraid I don't have time to read your posts, they're a bit lengthy and I have a business to run.

[Hurdity]

I'm afraid I don't have time to read your posts, they're a bit lengthy and I have a business to run.

Wow what a put-down

Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

I'm afraid I don't have time to read your posts, they're a bit lengthy and I have a business to run.

Wow what a put-down

Hurdity x

Not at all. You asked if I'd read the link and I explained.

[Perinowpost]

There are some lengthy posts on here that can be boring but they don't come from Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

Perinowpost - I didn't say anything about boring, please don't put words in my posts that aren't there. I'm sure all the lengthy posts have their own merit, personally I prefer to do my own research when I have the time.

[Hurdity]

Perinowpost - I didn't say anything about boring, please don't put words in my posts that aren't there. I'm sure all the lengthy posts have their own merit, personally I prefer to do my own research when I have the time.

For information kilted Cupid - you say you prefer to do your own research but you asked a question about Crinone and so I answered you personally in an attempt to be helpful. None of the posts I made about this were long (although I do sometimes do long posts!). I did not ask if you had read the links but the posts. I am not normally one for posting links alone as that puts the onus on the reader to have to read, and interpret and work out what the point of them is. I posted extracts from the links relevant to your questions about crinone to actually make it easier for you so you didnt have to do that! We are asked ( in forum rules etc) to post links where we provided infomration - which I try to do if I have them to hand. Of course members can't respond to all posts on threads - there are far too many - but when a question is asked and someone responds to you by name - it is usual on this forum at least to acknowledge even if you have no time to read, otherwise we think you have missed it and also it makes people feel like they have wasted their time. I realise you are a newish member but that is how it works on here (or should do).

Hurdity x

[KiltedCupid]

Perinowpost - I didn't say anything about boring, please don't put words in my posts that aren't there. I'm sure all the lengthy posts have their own merit, personally I prefer to do my own research when I have the time.

Of course members can't respond to all posts on threads - there are far too many - but when a question is asked and someone responds to you by name - it is usual on this forum at least to acknowledge even if you have no time to read, otherwise we think you have missed it and also it makes people feel like they have wasted their time. I realise you are a newish member but that is how it works on here (or should do).

Hurdity x

The original question was asked directly to BeaR and she replied directly to me. Having checked back, your post, in between  ours, wasn't addressed to anyone.

I'm aware of how the forum works, thank you.

[bear]

Of course it's relevant bear! Kilted cupid asked a question specifically about crinone as part of hRt and  have posted the information that I have found re the research and its availability. The 4% has not been available since not long after I first came across it on this forum - probably more than 8 years but the study was quoted in the recent review of progestogens and their effect on the endometrium so the menopause academics seem to think it's relevant. Like I said the dose concentration in the research is lower than currently available but this makes it all the more interesting because lower doses appear to be effective in that particular trial so may not be associated with quite the same side effects. Like I said with the 8 % you would get more of a hit but still worth investigating as kilted cupid seems to want to try?

Kilted cupid? is the information I have provided helpful to your quest? re the generics issue - I posted about this recently ref Jeremy Corbyn's proposal at labout Party conference - and posted elsewhere about this the other day - briefly!

Hurdity x

Hi there,

I've read your posts and I'm aware you have found the research, but I don't think it's relevant to discuss a presentation that's no longer manufactured. If KiltedCupid's GP or specialist agrees to prescribe it off-licence (I hope you agree with the term), s/he will prescribe the only available presentation, 8%. Menopause academics might think it's relevant, but I was referring to KiltedCupid's more urgent needs (her FemSeven patches are about to run out).

BeaR.

[bear]

There are some lengthy posts on here that can be boring but they don't come from Hurdity x

Hi Perinowpost,

Are you referring to my posts? I hope not, but if you are, just skip them. 

BeaR.