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[Ladybt28]

Hi Everyone,
Got loads of good advice when I posted in the last couple of months about my discovery of having hormonal depression and my experiences with various forms of HRT.  I am 56 post meno (no spotting or bleeding on hrt or an 8 week period without any hrt).
I was on Premarin 1.25 and Provera progesterone on a continous regime but found that I was progesterone intolerant.  Not as bad as some ladies here but it really affects me.  So ladies here advised to stop the Provera and see what happened and it really made a difference and to go to a cyclical regime with a bleed, and if 12 days was too long on a cycle to shorten the days and see what happend (I really dont mind the bleed because I felt so much better).  The only issue I had with the Premarin was that I got sore breasts but I could stop that by dropping a day.  I could have asked the doctor for the lower dose which is .65mg but I wasnt sure if that was enough.  I had it when I was peri in Prempak C before it was discontinued but I did'nt I got a bit swayed by what I read here.

Then I asked to change my Premarin to eostrogel and Utrogestan because I suppose I was a bit influened by how well everyone seemed to get on with it here and also because eostrogel is bio-identical and not synthetic like Premarin.  However I am now 2 weeks into the gel (yes I know I probably need more time) but there is a marked difference in how I feel.  I have got that slightly anxious feeling, slightly headachy (I had left sided headaches all my life but they disappeared when I was on the Premarin), I also a bit weepy again and I am back having some suicidal thoughts.  It's not the Utrogestron because it is another week before I get to that bit.

Have any of you ladies changed from Premarin to gel/Utrogesten on a cyclical basis?  I would really love to know if anyone had any bad experiences and what type of things happened.  Have any of you had to change back even though Premarin is synthetic?  Maybe it is too early to judge the gel as it is only 2 week's since I changed and it will settle?  I am just disappointed I dont feel as good as I did on the Premarin all of a sudden.  I am using 3 pumps but I dont know whether that is enough or too much compared to Premarin tablets 1.25 and that is why I dont feel so good?

So many questions huh - I would really like to know what you all think - it may point me in the right direction. 

[Juliet]

I am keeping a record of dosage of gel and then monitoring anxiety and mood (am, lunch, pm) because I think the gel is causing the anxious feeling in my throat/stomach and insomnia. When I was on Femoston 2/10 I found I seemed to be looking forward to the progesterone phase, hence my feeling the gel is too blame. However, I also think the oestrogen has had marked improvement on my mood, so don't want to stop the gel. I have also stopped the utrogestan for now and will take it sequentially more so I can work out what is causing what (or not). The important thing is to keep a record and see of there are any patterns so you can tweak the dose or request a different regime. For the last 5 days I have had only 1 pump of gel every other day and anxiety sensation is much lower, but also noticing some aching in my hands and not sure if mood is dipping, so may need to increase slowly. Need to collect data for a few weeks before making big changes as I found nothing stays the same for very long, and the depths of despair can switch to happy contentment within minutes.

[Dancinggirl]

Ladybt28 - early days - your body is adjusting and I bet in a couple of weeks things will settle. 3 pumps per days is quite high - I would drop to 2 pumps per day. Transdermal HRT can be far more effective so 3 pumps may be too high. DG x

[imgeha]

I have just switched from Estrogel to synthetic HRT because it was not strong enough for me - even at 4 pumps a day - and I had debilitating symptoms, though not quite believing I could feel so bad while on HRT! - weepy, depressed, left-eyed headaches, anxiety, gut stuff, chest pains, fatigue, etc.  My hormone doctor has put me on 2mg of Progynova (Belgian med) and I felt a difference the next day. I am hoping for more improvement.

[Ladybt28]

Dancinggirl - do you know who 3 pumps compares to the 1.25 Premarin in strength and are there side effects to too much oestrogen - if so what?  I know my Premarin was a little strong but other than sore boobs I was fine.  I thought (possibly wrongly that you could not have too much oestrogen only too much progesterone>)

[Dancinggirl]

We are all different and respond differently to hormones. I personally never did well with high doses. The last gynae I saw about hrt suggested it was best to start low (so one pump per day) and increase to 2 pumps per day after 2-3 weeks. 2 pumps per day is the average dose and my oestrogen levels used to be pretty high on 2 pumps per day.
I think it is very difficult to compare the two different types of oestrogen in terms of effectiveness or dosage especially as they are being delivered in a different way.
For many women transdermal Hrts is absorbed much better as less is lost through the digestive system - this will mean that a lower dose will work fine.
Dropping back to one pump per day might be a good idea and then increase to 2 pumps per day if you feel you need it. Basically if flushes are under control then you are probably on the right dose.  I liked being one one pump per day. DG x

[Steffi]

Thanks Dancing girl! Can I ask you some advice. My oestrogen levels were high the last few times they were measured and gynae said reduce to 1 pump (menopause dr said stay on protocol everything is fine) oestrogel and see if it reduces levels. Honestly I have so many ups/downs with sleep, mood etc since reducing that I am going to back on 2 pump dose. Last night I was woken with massive hot flush and palpitations - had enough. I am in peri and been bleeding every 2-3 weeks which is why we looked into oestrogen levels. Do you take much notice of blood test results?
Many thanks
Caroline

[Dancinggirl]

Steffi - if you are peri meno then I'm afraid there will be fluctuations in hormone levels.  The bloods tests will be particularly unreliable in peri as well.  If you are getting problematic bleeding then I would definitely keep to one pump per day as your own oestrogen levels are surging right now causing the womb lining to build too much.  The ups and downs are all part of the peri stage and as your own hormone levels drop then the HRT will have more control.  A low dose to HRT in peri can only help to balance things. What progesterone are you using?  DG x

[Steffi]

Thanks DG, am on 100mg Utrogestan vaginally and some months take for 2-3 weeks and others only a week. Tolerate this quite well and gelps with sleep.  Womb lining is thin. Thanks did not realise that my own hormones would be jumping around so much 😩. Normally that flushes and palpitations are signs low oestrogen though? Or can it be ither things fluctuating too? Also fighting some kind of virus 🙄 and had a stressful summer. Just pulling my hair out trying to work out what to do, wish it was easier to understand.

Many thanks
Steffi

[Dancinggirl]

There are so many things going on in the peri meno stage. It is also easy to blame hormones for symptoms that could be a virus or thyroid problems.
It's been such a hot couple of months and sleeping hasn't been easy - I am feeling really depleted right now.
Do try to practise relaxation techniques as these are essential to cope with fatigue and stress.
Be kind to yourself. DGx

[Ladybt28]

Anyone got any views on Premarin (not bio-identical) to gel (bio and more like own body chemicals)?  Should I have been swayed by what I read (know the answer really - probably not!!)  Bearing in mind I am not peri but post I don't have the fluctuations in hormones to contend with, but to go with the change in mood there is also itchiness, itchy eyes and that strange left sided eye ache (I know others have this) - its not quite a headache but has potential I think.

Its very hard to judge what is different.  If you start one thing, then move to another, and then move back, that's when it seem to become clear for me - otherwise moving from one to another unless the change is dramatic it is easy to not remembers what the first thing was like and then any change you think "am I imagining it?".

All this sound like the gel has made me mega confused and unable to write a proper sentence

All experiences gratefully received guys!  I'm looking to get grounded in info again instead of wavering and wobbling about what I think I know.

[Dotty]

If Premarin suited you then stick with it. X

[dangermouse]

I think some women find animal based products (Premarin) match their bodies better than plant based (Oestrogel).

There may be reasons why plant based is better for you though, possibly safer?