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[MizzT]

Hi

I started a natural progesterone cream a while back. I've had mixed results. My flushes and night sweats seemed worse but I am dealing with histamine intolerance and thyroid issues so it's hard to pinpoint what is causing what.

I've had reason to suspect that estrogen dominance is the cause of my histamine intolerance and possibly thyroid issues which is why I have been trying to rebalance my hormones by giving up non-organic dairy and taking prog cream/oil.

I am almost 52 and haven't had a period for 18 months at least. As mentioned, I am dealing with other issues so stopped the prog cream when I increased other medication as I didn't want to get confused about what was causing side-effects (plus I was starting to wonder if it was helping).

I realise now in the 6 weeks since I stopped taking the prog, my flushes have gradually lessened and my night sweats have almost entirely stopped. Not sure what that's about...as I thought they were caused by what I had eaten (for example, if I have wheat, I know I am going to have a slight wheeze within an hour and a hot flush within the next couple of hours).

Anyway, the point of this post is to ask what it means that I have ovulated? Does that mean my estrogen is high now? Does it mean that my progesterone supplementation has increased my estrogen? The last time I ovulated was over a year ago when I tried the mini-pill for a short time as I was sexually active and it hadn't been over a year since my last period. I only took it for a month as a hormone mark appeared on my face (which is still here but faded). That's when I ovulated. I didn't have a period though.

Ugh! So confused.

[dangermouse]

If you're still getting feelings of ovulation then your hormones are probably still darting about. I'd suspect you'd not be oestrogen dominant at this stage but who knows, you could still be getting surges before it all comes down.

Progesterone cream can initially make things worse which is all to do with it awakening dormant oestrogen receptors but it shouldn't last longer than a few weeks.

Body heat and flushes during peri and post meno are still a bit of a mystery as to the actual source. I get a burning back when not on prog but on it I just get a bit hotter mid-end cycle. I know it's hard to know where you are in your cycle without a bleed but it sounds as if you still have some ovarian action going on.

If you stop progesterone you do get a withdrawal effect for up to 2 weeks. I then find that after this I feel amazing for about 2 weeks as my prog is topped up but no more fluctuations from adding more in but then awful again once it runs out and oestrogen becomes dominant again. This may just be my pattern though but it may help as yes it is complex and confusing! I'm finding it better now I'm just taking it continuously so no fluctuations. If I do stop I'll very gradually withdraw it to avoid migraine etc.

So you need to really ascertain if you feel better on it (taking it continuously twice a day) or off it. Stopping and starting just confuses things and throws your hormones about too much. As you're off it now you could leave it a few months and see how things go and then you can add it back in the summer and compare the difference.

[dangermouse]

Just to also add that fertility docs prescribe high dose progesterone to women trying to conceive, so that when they stop it the oestrogen suddenly rises and are more likely to ovulate.

[Dancinggirl]

Hi MizzT
What makes you think you have ovulated? If you haven't had a natural period for over 18 months then you are probably post menopause and your oestrogen levels will have dropped significantly. It is highly unlikely that you have ovulated so I doubt very much you have too much oestrogen.
You have been fortunate that your flushes have reduced - your body is adjusting well!!!
The progesterone creams that can be bought online are so low dose they really don't do much but can some negative side effects for some women.
The cream will not increase your oestrogen level but your oestrogen levels may still be fluctuating a bit as they gradually drop and ultimately bottom out in a few months time.
Sensitivity to allergens is common when meno hits because the immune system becomes weaker and everthing dries out. Thyroid function can also be a problem at the time of menopause so pop to the doctor for blood tests in case you need treatment.  Your FHS and oestrogen levels could also be checked so you know where you are with your menopause journey.
If you look under ‘All things Menopause' on the forum, there is a link to some articles from the magazine and there is a wonderful article on the ‘perils of perimenopause' that would tell you everything you need to know - so do try to find this. DG x

[MizzT]

HI all. Thanks for your replies.

I definitely ovulated. I am one of those who suffered quite severe pain during ovulation, especially on my right side and I have that at the moment. I also got the jelly plug thing come out, plus some egg white type stuff a couple of days ago, so there's no doubt.

I guess there's not much point continuing to ask questions if I can't even be believed here when I share what is happening to me. Don't forget, a lot of us have been abandoned by our doctors so it is rather depressing not to be believed on a forum like this too.

To anyone else who might have stumbled across this post looking for help, I suggest you google the term 'ovulating after menopause'. You will find it is NOT uncommon. Also, natural progesterone seems to help lots of women. I just don't know if it might have been the cause of my ovulation, which is what I was asking about, but what DG said makes sense, so it could be down to that.

Thanks again.

[Hurdity]

Hi MizzT

I don't think it's a question of not being believed - it is just statistically very unlikely for a woman to ovulate 18 months after menopause especially if they have reached menopausal age, but of course as you say, it is possible and you have recognised the signs.

Also Dancinggirl is right in saying that progesterone cream obtained online is very weak and won't affect ovulation - but I'm guessing thast you're not in UK and perhaps obtained the cream from a compounding pharmacy? Whilst these creams are not recommended for endometrial protection as part of HRT because they are not standard and vary in strength, it is conceivable that, if you had not gone 12 months without a period before starting the cream, and you were not post-menopausal, you obtained sufficient progesterone to suppress ovulation just as in the mini pill - although ovulation is not suppressed in all users of prog mini pill. If that were the case then stopping the cream could allow ovulation - but only if you are not fully post-menopausal.

In fact your decrease in flushes before ovulation is absolutely classic (because oestrogen has risen)! Many women experience this - flushes coming and going as their hormones change. If you have ovulated then you should expect a period in two weeks and hopefully your oestrogen levels will remain high for some time and stave off the flushes.

If you would like relief from these if/when they resume, then taking oestrogen (along with a licensed dose of progesterone to protect the womb) will help.

In fertility, high doses of progesterone are given generally in cases of luteal insufficiency - where the corpus luteum (empty egg sac after release of egg) does not produce enough progesterone to maintain the pregnancy so has to be supplemented. As far as I know it has nothing to do with oestrogen at all.

Most women who visit this forum find it an invaluable source of help and those who post do so freely and using their knowledge and experience. Menopause is complex and we are all trying to understand and help each other make sense of what is happening and try to advise to the best of our ability so do continue to post!

Hurdity x

[Dancinggirl]

Hurdity - thank you for explaining things in more detail - your science background is invaluable.

MizzT

It wasn't that I didn't believe you - I was baffled as to why ovulation could have occurred in the absence of any periods over 18 months! I‘m sad to hear your doctors have abandoned you - I assume, like so many women, your doctors do not relate your symptoms with hormones so are not giving you the appropriate treatment.  I hoped the article I suggested you read would give you some insight into what was going on - unfortunately women are not educated about this time in our lives and it can be a very worrying, and sometimes frightening, time with so many strange symptoms going on. DG x