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[Mary G]

CLKD, you are right, the message is not getting through is it?  Coll's situation comes up on here time and time again and the new NICE guidelines have been in place for a couple of years now.  We are told to go to our GPs armed with information but aren't we missing the point here?  I don't go to my accountant or my lawyer armed with guidelines and information, I expect them to be on top of their game (and fortunately they are) so why is it OK for GPs to play by a different set of rules and be let off the hook? 

My advice to anyone who can afford it is to take the fast track and seek help privately.   

[Coll]

Thanks Mary G for the advice about high oestrogen, I have asked the Gp and private doctors Iv seen but haven't got it yet, only because Id read Proff Studds articles online and this forum. I m going to ring Gp again in the morning and when they say no I'll try the Consultant on Wed morning. (Not sure if he wanted to see my bloods first)
I feel I can't go on anymore but that was interesting also about when socialising we feel slightly less dreadful. Iv been eating dried apricots and prunes like they 're going out of fashion, xx

[Hurdity]

Mary G - again my point is that this Forum, Dr Currie and the various menopause 'groups' aren't doing much good across the UK!

That's a very damning statement CLKD which I am sure you don't really mean. Change doesn't happen overnight and the various menopause societies and many individual consultants and GPs ( like the British Menopause Society, the Women's Health Network, Royal College of Obstetricians and Gynaecologists, Dr Currie, Dr Louise Newson and many more) are all working to effect change bit by bit through publications, publicity - newspapers, radio, TV, Facebook, Twitter, conferences, workshops etc etc and I salute them for their dedication. It will take a generation probably to change the attitidue of all the GPs who haven't updated their knowledge. As for this forum - your statement gives no credit to the women (including yourself) and members of this forum who spend their time trying to help and educate other women and through them their GPs from the bottom up!! This forum is read by hundreds of women who we hope will feel empowered to go individually to their GPs and challenge them if necessary.

My advice to anyone who can afford it is to take the fast track and seek help privately.   

Yes there is a long way to go but as I've said many times before I feel we owe it to other women if we can, to challenge the entrenched and unhelpful views of some outdated GPs so that the message gets through - and it will be a much longer job if everyone (even if they could afford it) went privately for all menopause problems.

One caveat is testosterone - which it may not be possilbe to obtain on NHS in some areas as it is not licensed for women ( current formulations are for men) - but at least we can try!!

Off me soap-box now 

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Hi Coll

Belated from me too ( Christmas and all that - busy!).

One thing I don't think you've said in your posts is how old you are and also what your periods are doing or rather what they were doing before you started HRT, and how long you have been on this combo? This will give us an idea of where you are in menopause and whether you might actually be on a much too low dose of oestrogen for your needs. I started on 50 mcg patch when I was nearly 54 but was in late peri-menopause and this suited me fine from the start. I have never liked progesterone but tolerate it as part of the cycle - and now I'm on a long cycle of 6-8 weeks with  the agreement of my doctor ( in my 60's now). However some women need a higher dose and especially when younger or if they have suffered from reproductive depression/low mood/severe pms when fertile.

Good luck with your visit to the doctors and let us know how you get on

Hurdity x

[Coll]

Hi Hurdity, and ladies and thanks for the supportive messages.
Very thrilled as I managed to persuade the Gp to let me try Estradiol 0.06%, so have put the 1st pump on. (This holiday has been suicidally horrendous from a low mood point, with no good reason, sobbed myself to sleep last night,  and I never cry. )
To answer your questions Im 52, have been trying HRT unsuccessfully for 4,5 months, I know everyone says wait but felt the progesterone each month was destroying me. I literally couldn't function.
I  have always been very moody and down before a period. Adored being pregnant, but had absolutely no Post Natal Depression. Wasnt sure if was cause I breastfed each time for 13 months (tried searching the literature to see if it helps ease you away hormonally rather than crash you back down but haven't found a great deal.)
When I first tried the Oestrogen felt more clear headed and alert than I had in years which is why I'm  determined to keep trying to get this right. Saw 1 post which mentioned it s the change in hormones which badly affects you because after a couple of horrible days I felt OK on the Utrogestan too.
Think this all started at 42 and tried anti depressants so I didn't have to take time off work but really don't want to have to take them again. Really love having a clear head ( not making mistakes at work ), I just need to get the depression/low mood sorted.
I feel so grateful to this forum that I managed to avoid the mirena coil that everyone kept offering me.
I am going to keep trying, many thanks ladies xx

[Coll]

Hiya, I have had 2 days of one oestrogen pump but I feel absolutely shocking. So depressed and suicidal thoughts. Will this get better or is HRT just not for me. Everything just seems too too difficult. Iv read so much trying to find an answer and feel impatient but just don't know how I will go back to work. Yours Moaning Minnie xx

[Dotty]

You are not giving your body chance to get used to the hrt by constantly swapping and changing. You need to stick with one for 3 months.

[Dancinggirl]

Coll
There are no quick fixes. If your low mood is hormone related then it will get better in time but low mood and anxiety due to meno are the most difficult symptoms to control.
HRT should control flushes, night sweats and joints aches, so if these symptoms are improved then the HRT is doing its job.
HRT isn't for everyone and finding the right balance takes time - there will be compromises with any HRT regime.  A few woman find progesterone of any kind impossible to tolerate so alternatives like ADs/SRRIs may be the answer.
I am concerned that you are feeling so bad that you are suicidal - please see your GP ASAP to get help with this. There will be something they can give you to help, even for the short term.  Oestrogen is generally the feel good hormone but it takes at least 2-6 weeks to work its magic.
DG x

[Mary G]

Coll, you were on a 50mcg oestrogen patch which is roughly the equivalent of two pumps of gel.   You probably need more oestrogen not less so I would increase to two pumps each day and try to split the dose by 12 hours to avoid oestrogen dips.  I find the gel absorbs better than patches so you might find two pumps is enough but don't be afraid to go to more if necessary.

Read some of GypsyRoseLee's posts, she is peri menopause and has had great results with high dose oestrogen.

When my oestrogen levels were low I felt dreadful but when I started using the gel at a higher dose the difference was staggering.   

Definitely worth a try.

[Coll]

I will definitely give the 2 pumps a day a try Mary G and look at the other posts. It was because I was feeling so dreadful on the oestrogen  patches all over Christmas that I wanted to try the pump. Got a prescription for citalopram 20 also cause just need some respite.  Do you think it makes it harder to tell if the HRT is effective ? when using the anti ds.
I know I sound so impatient but I have been on HRT for just over 5 months and apart from a few good days at the start it has been quite unpleasant. Would love to get it sorted though. Thanks again ladies xx

[Dancinggirl]

Coll - from reading your posts, I think you do need some respite - if only for the short term.  Many women need both HRT and a SRRI - my gynae really recommended this if low mood was a key symptom. HRT can help mood but only if it is hormone related.  Life stresses, needing to work etc, make it particularly difficult to cope with all the symptoms we encountered when meno hits. HRT can throw up more problems than it sorts as well - it is always about benefits versus side effects. Once the HRT has settled, then you could try to come off the Citolapram to see if you need it or not. To get your life back on track, I would personally take the Citalopram alongside the HRT for a while. DG x

[Coll]

Can I ask you ladies, do some people get depression with any change in hormones because I think I'm finding if I change anything at all I seem to crash down ?
I'm very dissapointed because I'm taking the citalopram 20 mg now, as I had hoped I wouldn't need it.
Also do you think the depression is likely to be hormonal because the doctors I have seen don't seem totally convinced. I feel sure I'm progesterone intolerant cause of the different HRT s iv tried.
Last question does tesosterone help mood and libido ? if anyone has tried it ? Thanks

At the moment I'm trying oestrogen 2 pumps a day, for 3 months.
7 days of utrogestan
1 tiny tesosterone a week, when I get the prescription

[Annie0710]

Is 20mg amitriptyline enough to treat depression ? I take 10mg for nerve pain and can increase to 20mg but was under the impression by what gp said higher doses (ie more than 20mg) is for depression

Re testosterone , yes it can improve libido and give a better sense of wellbeing , it has for me, I still can have low days but not as often and not as bad x

[Coll]

Thanks for that Annie, Oh Iv thought of my last question. Can anyone tell me about their eyesight. I feel very much that my eyesight has become poorer whilst on HRT. Went to optician, happened to be time for check up and all fine, but I have read that hormones can affect it. Does it stabilise or improve again. I am going to have to start wearing glasses for everything at this rate, (only mildest reading glasses before) Thanks x

[Annie0710]

I started wearing glasses at 8, contacts at 15.  But 3 years ago I developed double vision, diagnosed as 6th nerve palsy in left eye, about 5 months after that I developed dry eye through the night.  Optician said I have more floaters than the average person my age and corneas are scratched quite a bit.  Amazingly my eyesight hasn't changed that much !