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Author Topic: Getting so damn fed up!  (Read 4028 times)

puddlesmum

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Getting so damn fed up!
« on: November 07, 2017, 09:59:41 PM »

Been on 1 pump of estrogel now for nearly 3 months (under the guidance of Prof Studd as I was still having heavy periods). I seem to have found some kind of pattern.  It seems the luteal phase week (when I'm fertile to when I ovulate) I get the most horrendous anxiety. Starts in the week I'm fertile where I start having negative thoughts that recur, then as it goes on, I then start becoming really sleepy during the day and not easily sleeping at night (this is also when I have 2 days where I get hot sweats at night) the week I ovulate the anxiety and fear strikes badly. I'm scared of everything. I start isolating myself away from my hubby, I'm too frightened to be left on my own for more than an hour or I start thinking horrible thoughts. I have this overwhelming fear that something is going to happen. I start panicking then about how if my partner dies how I'm not going to cope on my own. He's recently beat tongue cancer so it's a never ending circle of worry. I literally catastrophize things massively. I am having therapy though which is amazing.  For 2 weeks I'm bloated beyond bloating. I've never ever been bloated in my life until now.

Now I've found this pattern, what do you think I can do to rectify it?  We thought I was allergic to progesterone, but I'm wondering if this phase I'm in needs progesterone to level myself out?  What time of the month would I take it to counteract this phase? I'm getting so fed up with all this now. I have 1 amazing week out of 4 now but I want it to be longer!!!!  Arrrgghhhh.

I haven't had a period as such this month, just 10 days of slight bleeding which I could use a regular tampax all day with.  So I'm assuming now I should add in progesterone. I do have Utrogestan but don't want to take it on the 1-7th. Wondering if I should take it on day 15 to day 21 instead to combat this anxiety, or whether it should be later. I don't have any idea just how long progesterone takes to induce a bleed I'm that dumb. Help!
« Last Edit: November 07, 2017, 10:19:13 PM by puddlesmum »
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becca

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #1 on: November 08, 2017, 09:37:52 AM »

Sorry to hear you are struggling with anxiety - that is really tough.  I'm am still negotiating my way through all of this too - I also don't understand how the progesterone works so you're not alone in that - it's confusing!!   I'm sure one of the super knowledgeable ladies on this forum will respond soon with some advice.
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puddlesmum

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #2 on: November 08, 2017, 02:24:27 PM »

Anyone about?
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Mary G

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #3 on: November 08, 2017, 03:18:10 PM »

I'm so sorry to hear this.  I have send you a PM. 
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Hurdity

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #4 on: November 08, 2017, 05:12:38 PM »

Hi puddlesmum

If you are peri-menopausal then taking progesterone at a fixed point in the calendar month may not be the most appropriate time, but depends on what your own cycle is doing.

I can't work out from what you're saying which days in your cycle you are feeling like this - and also if you are peri-menopausal and are skipping periods you won't know anyway? I presume you are familiar with what happens to the hormones during the normal cycle ie oestrogen rises to a peak until just before ovulation after which it crashes and then slowly rises again over the next week (but not as high as the ovulatory peak) and slowly falls until menstruation. Progesterone rises after ovulation ( if no fertilisation) to a peak at around Day 21 ( of standard 28 days cycle) and then falls until menstruation. There are lots of diagrams on the web. If you feel rough following ovulation then it is either due to your own progesterone or decreasing oestrogen.

Using 1 pump of gel should prevent the worst of the effects of the oestrogen dip but not sure how you would feel with this added to your own oestrogen? Feeling sleepy is a property of progesterone which has a sedative effect - and this is produced after ovulation. Oestrogen will not cause this.

The 7 day Studd prog regime as I expect you know is far less than the licensed dose - and reserved for highly progesterone intolerant women as it may not be sufficient to protect the uterus, and only done under supervision. Therefore if you haven't had a bleed for a while and don't know where you are in your cycle it would be best to take for at least 10 days and then this would trigger a bleed when you stop - even if this doesn't tie in with your cycle. Not sure where the slight bleeding comes in - it could be anovulatory (no ovulation that month)?

Days 1-7 of a calendar month - are not the same as Days 1-7 of a cycle where Day 1 is the start of the (monthly) bleed. I hope I haven't confused you? By the way you are not at all dumb and you are also taking a non-standard regime so now wonder you are unsure as to what to do. Can you ask for advice about this from John Studd or his clinic?  Sorry this is a bit of a ramble - thinking aloud!

Hurdity x
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puddlesmum

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #5 on: November 08, 2017, 05:36:10 PM »

Well I'm using the period tracker app, I have an average of 32 day cycle. It seems that days 13 to day 27 of my cycle are the worst for this anxiety. I seem to be fertile from around the 13th/14th which is when the build up starts with the anxiety, so it's dark thoughts, racing mind, palpitations, then it just gets gradually worse and from day 20 to day 24 the anxiety gets worse, headaches start, feeling frightened starts, paranoia starts to kick in. Then roughly day 26 it starts to calm down to practically no anxiety at all as my period starts.

I don't understand what is happening between day 13-27 whether it's low progesterone, or low estrogen. It confuses me so much.
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GypsyRoseLee

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #6 on: November 08, 2017, 09:57:49 PM »

Hello puddlesmum

I am so sorry you're suffering like this and I can totally understand what you are going through because I was exactly the same. Lots of lovely posters on here will remember my hundreds of panicky posts about how dreadful I felt, and how I would suddenly feel scared of everything and anything.

Just like you I would quickly sink into a deep depression laced with awful anxiety. Like you I felt terrified to be on my own and I was reluctant to ever leave the house. I was constantly filled with a horrible jittery restlessness that was pure mental torture.

If you search my name you will see so many of my posts describing what I went through which you will be able to identify with.

I had a long history of suffering from hormonal low moods i.e. PMS and PND (which mainly manifested as crippling panic).

In desperation I tried various conventional HRT, I also tried the pill but I couldn't tolerate the synthetic progesterone in them. It made me feel almost suicidal. I ended up signed off work for nearly 3 months and every morning I woke up filled with dread. It was unspeakable.

Finally I washed up at Prof Studd's rooms and he prescribed 3 pumps + 100mg of Utrogestan on Day 1-7 of each month + a dab of testim gel per day.

Now I admit it didn't really work for me, and in desperation I had a 2nd appointment and he upped me to 4 pumps. At the same time I started a low dose of sertraline at my GP's suggestion just to tide me over until the increase in HRT kicked in.

Within 12 hours of being on the higher dose I felt a shift in mood. Very gradually and quite erratically I started to get better.  I stopped waking at 4am filled with dread. I started to get several days in a row where I felt normal. I religiously stuck to the new 4 pumps regime. It was a case of 3 steps forward then 2 steps back. But I was getting more and more normal days. Within 6 weeks I was able to return to work.

Every few weeks I would suddenly slip right back again and the jitteriness and bleak anxiety would flood back. It was frightening but it always passed after 7-10 days and I think it was my own natural cycle pushing through the HRT.

My natural periods had become very light in recent years (from when I turned 43) and even on 4 pumps they have stayed very light and only lasting 3 days.

A year later and I would say I am 95% back to normal with just the occasional 'dip' which occurs usually around the 25th which is just before my 'old, natural period' used to start. But it doesn't happen every month and at least now I know it will pass.

From what you say you start suffering as soon as you've finished ovulating and your symptoms intensify until just before your period starts. This is because your oestrogen (your 'happy and contented' hormone) is dropping like a stone and your progesterone (which you can no longer tolerate) is rising.

This is exactly how I used to be pre-43, when my cycle was stronger and I was still getting a normal bleed. I would feel almost euphoric as I ovulated but then feel horribly flat during my luteal phase and it wouldn't lift until my period actually finished (and my oestrogen would start to rise).

Eventually, the horrible flatness didn't lift after my period finished. It stayed all month long just getting worse then the horrific fear + anxiety kicked in.

I just want to hold your hand and assure you that you WILL get better. You will get through this, I promise. I suspect that one pump isn't sufficient to counter act the surge in progesterone after you have ovulated? And maybe even the 3 pumps you tried didn't help because it wasn't enough to suppress your natural cycle, so you were still at the mercy of your own hormones surging and falling on almost an hourly basis.

Possibly 4 pumps might do the job for you, like it did for me? I think it took a few months to fully kick in but I do think it suppressed my cycle 90% so stopped the dreadful lows.

It doesn't really matter when you take the Utrogestan so long as you take it at the same time every month. I have been assured by Prof Studd that 100mg for just 7 days per month is perfectly sufficient to stop your womb lining from building up. When I mentioned that my withdrawal bleeds each month were very light despite using 4 pumps, he assured me that was because the Utrogestan was doing its job and stopping my lining from thickening much at all. He also assured me that regular uterine scans were unnecessary so long as my pattern of light withdrawal bleeds stayed consistent. Any sudden very heavy bleeds or pain (I get zero pain nowadays) would need checking out obviously.

So, sorry for waffling on but I hope what I have written might give you hope. Please feel free to ask any questions because I 100% understand what you are going through.
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Mary G

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #7 on: November 09, 2017, 08:04:47 PM »

GRL, what an inspirational post, thanks for that.  It gives hope to so many women - often very young women - who have hormonal depression and anxiety and feel very alone in the world. 

Long may your success continue!
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CLKD

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #8 on: November 09, 2017, 08:16:18 PM »

You waffle GRL - it's uplifting to hear how you have stuck it out and are coming through  :foryou:.   Crippling anxiety can be dangerous.

puddlesmum - I have had anxiety since aged 3 and the only thing that stops it is an 'emergency' drug from my GP.  I used Valium 10mg as necessary for years, taking it the night B4 an event that I couldn't get out of. Now I have another 'as necessary' pill and because I know it works I don't worry about additiction problems. 

Maybe talk to your GP about an 'an necessary' med for the days when anxiety floors you.  It doesn't matter that it might be hormonal! because the feelings are physical.  They can seem never ending at the time regardless that I know they will pass: it's today, not what might happen next week 4 me!  If you have a sympathetic GP and think a trial during the days you feel ill might help  :-\  ???
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dangermouse

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #9 on: November 11, 2017, 08:20:19 AM »

It may also be from oestrogen surges (particularly with anxiety and crashing fatigue), as day 13 in your long cycle would be pre ovulation, but as this can be hard to treat and you are already with Prof Studd, the 4 pumps sounds a great idea to suppress your own cycle as much as possible.
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peri

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #10 on: November 11, 2017, 07:38:38 PM »

Yes excellent post GypsyRoseLee x
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racjen

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #11 on: November 12, 2017, 11:01:38 AM »

Thanks for your post Gypsy Rose Lee - this sounds so familiar I could've written it myself. The constant feelings of fear and dread are so hard to describe to anyone who hasn't been there, plus the background depression which makes life feel like one long grind. I'm still trying to get sorted with this, I've been on Evorel 100 patches for the last couple of months and although I've definitely improved it feels like really slow going, every time I up the dose I feel better for a week or so and then my mood slides again. It's reassuring that you eventually found a way through all this, I just hope I do too, and soon...
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Hurdity

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #12 on: November 12, 2017, 04:06:27 PM »

Hi GypsyRoseLee - how lovely to hear from you and especially to know that you are feeling so much better. Yes we do remember your posts and we all felt for you at the time! Really good news and your words will provide so much reassurance to others going through the same. :)

Hurdity x
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CLKD

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Re: Getting so damn fed up!
« Reply #13 on: November 12, 2017, 04:14:05 PM »

I would wake terrified, pre-hensile like terror.  Anytime from 3.30 a.m.  :'(.  ADs worked for me.  That was B4 peri..  'wading through treacle' ......
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