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[Lucyjo]

Out of interest - does anyone know when we should get the MM magazine?
Thanks, Lucyjo

[knorman]

Morning Lucyjo

Speak to your Dr about maybe coming off the amitriptyline. I took 20 mg per night initially for back pain, but as a really bad sleeper, they did help to relax me, which may be why they were recommended for your BMS. I know anxiety makes it worse.  I have taken a long winding, road to BMS, so not sure at this point if it is even due to hormones.  I had been taking amitriptyline  for 10 years and initially it gave me a dry mouth (it is one of the known drugs for causing this), but didn't notice it after a couple of weeks. Since having BMS, I saw my dentist and he explained I had an extremely dry mouth, I went cold turkey coming off the amitriptyline (and the occasional zopiclone), had the most horrendous, anxious night as I had nothing to help me sleep (the night heats are atrocious at the moment), but kept going at the thought that the amitriptyline at this point, may be make the BMS worse.  Woke up with an extremely dry mouth, but it was a 'normal' dry mouth and I knew something was different.  Got up, started my day and I was about 80% functioning better. I was extremely happy, the sun was shining and the birds were singing. A perfect day!Then I had the incident with the water bottle top, I think it was something from the dishwasher on there, it tasted chemically and of salt and bang, back it came. You will be able to imagine how I felt after having 2.5 days with a practically normal mouth. Anyway, please excuse the rambling! Upshot is, the amitriptyline may be contributing. The Biotene I would recommend, felt vey nice to coat my mouth yesterday and stopped the stinging/burning, it also encourages saliva due to Xylitol and would also recommend Xylimelts (Amazon) if I haven't already. I was also still having periods at 55, had an ablation and hysteroscopy (due to flooding and what felt like labour pains), they came back for a couple of months and then mine finally stopped at 56 and period free now for 17 months.  We sound very similar!  I understand about the quality of life, I have only had this a few months and I am losing weight due to not being able to eat  things I usually eat, ie spicy food and the odd cake, I'm not even able to have a cup of tea as it dries my mouth out too much, which it didn't initially, so I am well and truly miserable and finding it hard to stay positive. I get panicky if I am seeing other people as talking is extremely uncomfortable and that of course makes everything worse.  At the moment everything feels like a really vicious ever decreasing  circle and I don't know what to do for the best, but I do hope maybe some of the things above will help.  I never know when the MM magazine is due!  Sorry for the long post and thank you for the late menopauser link Hurdity.

[Lucyjo]

HI Knorman,
Thank you so much for that! I have been for reflexology this morning - first time & am going to give that a try for 3 more sessions. I am now on 20mg of citalopram daily & 25mg of nortriptylene at night, reducing the citalopram to 10mg on Thursday for 1 week then stop citalopram & nortriptylene, & take 60mg of duloxetine daily.
I am going to Boots tomorrow to get the biotene toothpaste & mouthwash. Feel like I'm on a mission to get rid of this once & for all - it'll probably all end in tears though! I have been thinking of postponing the duloxetine & see how I get on, having seen the worrying side effects. I will also try the xylimelts. Take care x

[knorman]

Hi Lucyjo

Strangely, as I had another sleepless night last night, I wondered if acupuncture might help.  I am not able to work at the moment due to CFS/ME and really cannot afford it, but like you, on a mission!  I hope everything you are putting into motion helps, I think it helps also when we know we are trying to help ourselves.  You take care too! x

[knorman]

Morning Lucyjo

I have hopefully found something natural to help with the dry mouth...raspberries, the tarter the better.  They are used in the Xylimelts I mentioned, so I thought I would give them a go. The tartness is producing saliva and also, making my mouth feel 'clean' for the first time in ages. Worth a shot!

[Lucyjo]

Thanks knorman, I'll give them a go!
Got the Biotene mouthwash yesterday so trying that as well.
Down to 10mg Citalopram for one week from tomorrow - see what reactions that brings!
Take care & good luck with the raspberries x

[Lucyjo]

Hi Knorman - did you find the Biotene stings your tongue like mad?
I expected it to be very gentle for some reason!
Maybe it's doing some good if it hurts x

[Shadyglade]

Hi, just read through some of the previous posts about Duloxetine.  It can also be prescribed for neuropathic pain so perhaps that is why the doctor has decided to try it.

Remember none of us here are experts and we only have our own experience to base advice on.  Make sure you balance it with what to find for yourself plus what the doctor says. 

[knorman]

Morning Lucyjo

The first time I used it didn't, but then it did.  I am going to going and have some in a minute.  Did your mouth feel more lubricated after? I always like to think that if something is unpleasant it must ne doing some good!

[Lucyjo]

Hi knorman,
It was very stingy for a while after - worse than before I used it.
Haven't used it today - too depressed!
Just received the MM mag & when I saw "burning issue" on the front I was so excited - thought it may be about burning mouth - but it wasn't unfortunately.
If you don't mind me asking - do you take hrt??

[knorman]

I am so sorry Lucyjo, I feel I made it worse for you  .

I received MM yesterday and like you, though aha! maybe some answers!

HRT started this problem for me.  After 3 weeks my night heats had gone and something began to lift, bliss, and then 3 1/2 weeks in, my tongue and lips started to burn and tingle.  When I stopped the HRT, the sensation started to go away.  Something obviously upset the balance in my mouth as since then I have had all sorts of problems with different things.  We tried 3 different types of HRT, all with the same effect.  I have oestrogel and utrosteone waiting for me upstairs, but waiting until I have allergy tests in May before (if) I start with them. 

Do you think if we put a request in a post for an article on dry, burning mouth in the MM it will be picked up?

I am so sorry about the mouthwash Lucyjo xxx

[Lucyjo]

Knorman, please don't blame yourself - I am happy to try anything -  I will give it another go maybe tomorrow.
Just fed up today!
I did put a request in to the magazine a while ago - so maybe if a few people do, they may look into it for us.
I did pay £25 to menpause matters for help but don't think it helped that much - can't really remember & I must have deleted it some time ago.
Take care x

[imgeha]

As I understand it, BMS is common in perimenopause and menopause as high estrogen means B12 can't function as well and so we go into relative deficiency. B12 deficiency can cause all sorts of neurological symptoms, of which a sore tongue is one. It may be addressed by taking folate and methyl B12, which will also help address anxiety, depression and digestive issues. One might argue that oestrogen dominance = B12 deficiency = many perimenopause symptoms! If you were B12 deficient before peri, this will get much worse. Having a serum B12 reading in range does not mean that you have sufficient B12 at cellular level, but doctors get this wrong. I have a serum level massively over range and yet I am deficient, as witnessed by BMS and many other neurological symptoms.

[Lucyjo]

Hi imgeha, please could you tell me exactly what B12 etc I need to take for BMS? Also did it cure yours? I'm so excited that you may have given me a cure! I have just started a multi vitamin for over 50s women - but if you recommend something different I'm more than happy to swap. Can't wait to hear from you - Lucyjo

[imgeha]

Hello Lucyjo

B12 deficiency is a whole story .... from types of B12 (methyl, adeno, cyano and hydroxy) which suit different people, to method delivery (injections, sublingual, transdermal oils, patches) and co-factors (folate, B1, B2, iron). The easiest thing would be to get some sublingual methyl B12 - say 1mg - and keep it in your mouth between gum and cheek for at least half an hour. If after a few days you get some relief from BMS then you know you are onto something. There is lots of reading to be done, and probably blood tests too, to see where your serum B12 is at, although taking the sublinguals will push the levels up very high (although your body won't necessarily be able to use it) and GPs will see this as the real level and take no further action. I would get blood tests done first, see where your B12 is at, do some research around this result (plenty of FB groups on B12 deficiency which will guide you) and take it from there. I have had B12 deficiency, and BMS for 14 years - really only just worked it all out. I am using B12 oil, and thinking about injections. My BMS is much better, but not gone. Neurological damage (which BMS is - damaged nerves) is irreversible after a certain point, so it is best to treat it quickly. Not leave it 14 years! I'm not sure I will get rid of mine completely, but I'm going to give it a good go. Also, I would say your multi vit is probably not going to do you much good.... Here is a link to get you started. http://www.b12deficiency.info/b12-facts/