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[Katia]

I'm on day 4 of applying a tiny bit of T.  I'm experience cold on my hands, feet and lower legs and alertness if I wake at night, which I have come to associate with estrogen being slightly high.  I was ok before adding the T, so I'm guessing the T is upping the estrogen a little.  I like that the T has given me a bit more body in my hair, is clearing up a couple of big spots that appeared and I don't feel so shattered at 3pm in the afternoon.  It's subtle and I haven't noticed and libido changes yet.  I am using about a small pea size - where it will last about 2 weeks.  would ladies who have experienced this reduce the estrogen slightly and see, or cut back a bit on the T? Or continue and see if my body adjusts?  I also take utrogestan.  I'm unsure what to do as it seems I'm using less T than most people, so I'm thinking maybe try to cut down the E slightly.   
From what I have read T mainly converts to e in women due to the aromatase enzyme. 

[Hurdity]

Hi Katia

I've replied on your other thread - I really don't think that adding the T will have any effect on the oestrogen levels. You are only using a tiny amount ( as I am) so I would not reduce oestrogen if you are previously settled on your oestrogen dose. The gynae I saw ( Annie Evans - now retired) said that it can take 4-5 months for the full effects to be apparent as there are genomic changes which take some time (through gene-expression in target tissues) just as with oestrogen. I didn't notice a difference in libido for sometime either - I talked more about this on my thread in Private Lives - not in public 

Yes my tube of T lasts around 2 weeks too....

If you have any information that demonstrates that addition of exogenous testosterone in women results in higher oestrogen levels I would be very interested - as I couldn't find any. I also said this on your other thread!

Hurdity x

[Katia]

Hurdity, I've replied to you on my other thread. I did some reading today, lots more to do.

[Katia]

The estrogel made my bones cold and so does the T gel, would it be anything in the gel itself.  It's an internal cold not external. Mainly in my legs, hands and feet. Went away when I reduced estrogen and slightly reduced T to a tiny lentil. 

[Katia]

HUrdity, isn't personal experiences private?  gosh, I really wish it was all private

[Katia]

Does anyone have any side effects from Testosterone?

I got a period like bleed, which I'm not sure if it is connected to the testosterone or my period. I read the testosterone increased activity in the ovaries, so maybe it is connected. I also got diarrhoea and sore gums. These are listed as t side effects. Do they pass?

The benefits were shinier hair, smoother skin and a bit more energy.

I was using less than half a lentil size, so much, much less than the pea size. I've stopped for now, but any tips on how to balance it would be appreciated as it had benefits for me

[Jintyhilton]

Katia , now i'm wondering if its the T that has caused my recent 'period' Its all so frustrating and confusing .....  x 

[peri]

Which one are you on Katia?  I had a reaction to testogel but am fine on testim (i think it was the carrier in testogel that was the problem).  Having said that I only use a small amount cos too large a blob makes me feel jittery.  I don't think it will have caused a period though I think that's more likely to be your own cycle, which if you're peri menopausal can be erratic.  Re libido that's more of a slow build up (excuse the pun) and takes a few months of use to reach maximum effect x

[Hurdity]

I agree with peri - you are worrying too much about the effect of the T. As far as I know it has nothing to do with bleeding. If it's uterine bleeding then it's controlled by oestrogen and progesterone - and there are various reasons for bleeding but usually if you are peri as peri says (!!) then it's your own cycle.

I really wouldn't stop if you have been prescribed it and your libido (and other symptoms) indicate that it is low? Sometimes increasing oestrogen alone can help with libido.

Hurdity x

[Katia]

It's the same one. 

The diarrhoea and swollen gums are listed as side effects of T and I have them.  I hadn't had any bleeding on premarin and it just seems so strange that it started with the T.  I read that T does increase activity in the ovaries and a study I read evidenced some vaginal bleeding in T groups.  I'm now on day two with no T and still bleeding so I'll wait and see what happens.  I don't plan to add the T back until the bleeding stops and then I'll try again otherwise I won't know if the T caused it.  If I take too much estrogen it seems to keep me awake at night.

Does anyone have any side effects with T?

[Katia]

Rockhopper, which one are you using?

You're right I am trying to find out about side effects. I noticed some benefits with T. My skin and hair were instantly better. I wasn't feeling like I wanting to fall asleep at my desk at 3pm. The first day I applied it I got an internal cold feeling. I got this with the gel, but not as bad, so I'm not sure if it's too much estrogen that causes it or how I may react to transdermal applications.  It's very unpleasant.   After a couple of days I got a bleed and I also got really bad diarrhoea where I couldn't go to work  my mood crashed and I felt terrible.  I only used a tiny bit. I've stopped it to see what happens and get it out of my system and wait for the bleed to stop. I will then try again. Perhaps not using it every day. This is the only way I can think of that I will know if it's the T.  I'm hoping it's not and its just coincided with a period that's made me feel really ill as I did love the T. I'm just trying to find out any possible side effects other people may have had. Swollen gums and diarrhoea are on the leaflet as side effects and I got both of them

[Blakeygray]

Another Testogel user here without any adverse side effects bar a bit of hair growth where applied. Apart from that it's all good.

[Hurdity]

Side effects listed on the leaflet will be for men who are taking testosterone replacement at high doses and will not necessarily apply to women.

Also - did I read somewhere you are also taking Premarin as the oestrogen part of HRT? I don't know who is prescribing your combo but research ( with the Intrinsa patch) showed the T supplementation in women taking conjugated equine oestrogens was markedly less effective than other oral oestrogen and transdermal oestrogen - due to its effect on SHBG (which mops up the free T) which is increased therefore depressing free T - the active part - and therefore is not recommended.

Rockhopper - good to hear your positive reports but I am sorry you felt the need to apologise for and explain your style. Exclamation marks are fine - I use them all the time!! Mine usually mean - "wow!!" and I'm cheerful!! and Fancy that!! Providing information is not preachy at all and ignore any comments that suggest otherwise!!!!!  All such information and personal experiences alike are extremely helpful!!!

Hope you are feeling better anyway Katia and that it settles for you - I wouldn't stop and start taking it but perhaps think about changing oestrogen type if you are taking premarin -  talk to your doc?

Hurdity x

[Katia]

Hurdity, yes I'm taking Premarin. I tried the gel, but it was terrible.  I think it just flooded my system and add that to already fluctuating hormones, so we moved away from transdermal. The consultant recommended it, or Angeliq by email to my GP. My GP doesn't use it so doesn't really know it.  I've just changed the Utrogestan to provera to see if my hair is any better and if it makes me less groggy. I will see how I go and may ask to try estradiol tablets if the provera works out. I didn't know about the Premarin. It seems strange as they prescribe t in the USA and use Premarin more there than here

[Katia]

Hurdity, what is different about Premarin and SHBG?  I thought any raise in estrogen would raise SHBG which reduces free testosterone.  I read that T isn't recommended without taking E. Why would Premarin be different from estradiol?  I have noticed my mood not great with Premarin, but I'm not sure if it's Premarin or peri.