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[Annie0710]

That's truly awful.  Looking back I did go on and on about my symptoms, there were so many and always in my conversation and I could see loved ones eyes rolling at yet another 'symptom' I was telling them about.  I haven't been to the Drs much at all considering all that I've suffered as I even think they were beginning to think I was a hypochondriac.  I was paying a chiropractor because of a shoulder problem and he was insistent I had CFS, I felt quite angry about that as if I was being palmed off without being taken seriously.  Throughout all this I've developed double vision and so I started to think maybe this wasn't all menopause, that maybe there was an auto immune thing going on, as Raynauds has since been diagnosed too.  But now I think predominately it's menopause but maybe with something else in the back ground.  If it is, I can manage now my wellbeing is improved.  I read ladies stories on here where they're where I was at and just find it so sad, I always dreamed of finding my best regime like other ladies had, I think this is what I've found in oestrogel and Tostran, I can cope with the other niggly things that I feel most days.  Oh and a month ago I started amitriptyline for my back pain and although nowhere near cured, it's allowing me to be much more active

[Hurdity]

I know some ladies don't hold with the 'unopposed' hormone thing, but three specialists I've seen now, have all said that if your body is only absorbing oestrogen HRT, you will get paradoxical symptoms.... hot flushes, hair loss, irritability etc.  I had thought it was because I had too high or low a dose, but it's because it's being used on it's own.   

I'm not sure what you mean by the "unopposed hormone thing"  - however when I went to see private gynae (Annie Evans) about testosterone - she did say that that hormone was often the missing link. Some women did not feel right on their HRT regime and continued to experience symptoms - and kept increasing oestrogen only to make things worse - and that a little testosterone would make a huge amount of difference - the missing link. Is this what you meant? I do think the balance between these too is crucial and probably overlooked unfortunately in menopausal women!

Re your comments about testosterone products Polyanna: Testim and Testogel are identical in concentration at 1 % whereas Tostran is double ( 2%).  All will work in the same way but remember these products are designed for men and to be used in large quantities and the recommendation for women is often a pea-sized blob. As such a small amount is used then I would say it is better to use the weaker on because there is less margin for variation in dose.  I mean the equivalent for Tostran would be half a pea and this is harder to be accurate about! As far as I gather most gynaes do usually prescribe the 1%  gels - notwithstanding your experience Annie and glad it works for you - and also some women do use higher doses.

What oestrogen dose are you on Polyanna - I've forgotten?

Hurdity x

[Pollyanna]

Hi Hurdity.   

I meant that some women don't hold with that term.   I've come across it many times with ladies who have either been clients of mine in the past, or just women I've met along the way.

I know Annie Evans very well as I lived in Bristol for years, and around 30 years ago when she worked for the NHS, I met her for something completely different.  She did well for herself and I warmed to her as she has a direct manner, rather like myself (or the 'self' I usually am).   

A good friend of mine told me about the use of testosterone.  This was years ago.  She's 17 years older than me and we used to be neighbours when I lived in Clifton.   She's Canadian and went back to live in Canada.  Miss her terribly.   Her first choice for most health matters, would be to try natural things first.    She had always been prone to the blues, not necessarily depression.   Her doctor in Canada suggested that she try testosterone gel.  This was around 15 years ago now.   I hadn't heard of it for women and as I wasn't even 'peri' then, and not at all well read on it, I was horrified that a woman should use testosterone.   I know different now of course but she was a changed woman on it.   Felt more confident and 'balanced' without loosing her fab personality.    I also read that Jane Fonda is a fan of testosterone too.   

Hurdity... I started oestrogel only this week.   I was using two pumps for a few days but anxiety through the roof... palpitations, sweats and flushes.  I am a woman who has never experience flushes or sweats throughout peri/post meno so I knew this was the amount I was using.    For the past few days I'm gone down to one pump.   I know it all takes time to adjust and I did have 5 weeks on Tibolone. 

How do I feel today?  Low and exhausted.   I'm sleeping well.   I've no doubt that I'm a little 'clinically' depressed as I've been through some tough things recently.  However, that is not the cause of these symptoms.   I know myself very well so at least I am able to figure that out.   

I've always been sensitive to medication and as my BMI is only 18, it makes sense to me that a larger lady might be okay on 2 pumps of gel, but smaller ladies would suffer side effects more. 

Going back to the hormone thing.   It makes sense to me that hormones work better together and this is why I was an advocate of compounded hormone therapy.  It's just that I am not good with progesterone.   

Like vitamin supplements, they don't work well unless taken with others.   

Oh, the reason i was changed from patches to gel is because when i last had a blood test, my oestradiol levels were really low.   Jan Brockie (lovely woman) at the John Radcliffe, suggested I wasn't absorbing the patches as my levels shouldn't have been so low at 83 pmol/L.   She suggested the gel.   My testosterone reading at that time was 0.6 nmol. 

Ha.. I must change my 'handle'.   Pollyanna isn't my real name but rather the nickname my grandfather gave me as a child.   I always saw things as being good and positive.  My real name is Heather. 

I think I'll have to get out for a long walk today as I'm very anxious and need to burn that energy off somehow. 

Hope this is is all legible.  What I have noticed is that due to the anxiety, I find it difficult to be clear.  And yet I'm a very articulate woman usually.   

x

[Pollyanna]

Annie... .I'm sorry, I hadn't read your post.   

Well, yet another coincidence with us.   I have had Raynauds since I was in my late 20's.    I refuse to take medication for it as I feel too many drugs in your system, only cause more problems.   I didn't know much about the cause of it in those days and this was before we could all use Dr Google.   Mine started after the birth of my daughter in my late 20's.  So, you could say that was a hormonal thing too.    I have really thin wrists.... so thin that no watch has ever fitted me.  This is why I have to watch my bone health too.   

More recently since have my illnesses, I was tested for Lupus.  Annie, I have had every test under the sun but I am interested in the immune system.  I've no doubt that a lot of my illnesses have been triggered by a rather weakened immune and adrenal  system. 

I found a fantastic chinese doctor when i lived in Bristol.  He is by far, the best acupuncturist I have ever been to and he helped build my immune system up.  In those days I had a high stress job, which was probably no good for my personality type, and we all used to drink regularly.   Honestly, I've had acupuncture since, with someone locally who was trained in the UK and is English.  I had absolutely no change in my health from her treatment.  But the doctor in Bristol... wow!   If I could afford him, I'd go back for maintenance. 

And, I know, it's awful when you're not take seriously isn't it?    You feel you want to reach out and share how you're feeling, but when it's met with either eye rolling, or worse... people being condescending and insulting your intelligence... it just makes you want to withdraw even more.     

When I used to see clients as a coach/counsellor, I was always mindful to engage and empathise because we are all human and we all go through troublesome times.   

Do you remember how long it took for the T gel to kick in and for you to have noticed a positive difference?

[Annie0710]

I used Testim from oct to Dec and didn't really notice much difference

Jan - may I used Tibolone

3rd week of may I started oestrogel & Tostran and I'd say within weeks I was noticing little changes.... no afternoon nap, chirpier, thinking about sex, more focused at work, June/July without overthinking I was putting myself in social situations that before would've had me saying no but although nervous I was going to things and ending up actually enjoying them.  I'm actually looking forward to things now, and although I've put on the few lbs I'd lost (now @9.5 st) I'm more confident, not massively confident but a bit of 'you either like me or you dont' attitude whereas before my lack of social outings were because I feared not being liked.  Something else I've noticed is before if I went in a shop for instance I'd not get into chat as I wanted to get out quick but now I'm chatty to assistants

[Hurdity]

Polyanna - I can't say when I noticed the difference - I know it took some time - as I was warned it would, and the changes (due to testosterone) are often so gradual.

Annie0710 - so good that you are at last noticing the benefits of testosterone! This is most likely because you have been using it now for some time - starting with the Testim, then the Tibolone and followed by the Tostran - so 8 months when you started the Tostran. As I've mentioned - and others have too - the gynae I saw said it could take 4-5 months for T to take an effect and it is the prolonged use that is important. I would like to think you would have felt like this eventually had you stayed with the Testim too (albeit you had a brief foray into Tibolone!). It also sounds like oestrogel suits you better than the Tibolone did.

Anyway your experience will be a great encouragement to others to persist with their testosterone treatment and not to give up if nothing happens straight away

Hurdity x

[Pollyanna]

Annie..... I'm inspired by your experience with T gel.   I can't believe how I have changed over the past year.   I used to give talks and motivate others and now I'm like a mouse.  I don't recognise myself.   

Am I right in thinking that you discontinued using Tibolone from 3rd week in May, and only used Oestrogel and T gel?

Hurdity..... I can imagine it takes time, particularly as only a tiny amount of t gel is required, but again, really good that you are benefitting from it. 

Now I have to wait for my GP to write to Jan Brockie at the John Radcliffe.  In fact (knowing how long the process can take), I emailed Jan this morning to ask if she'd received anything.  I had an out of office reply and she's on leave until 31st August.   Nightmare.   I've called for a telephone appointment with my GP for this afternoon and I'm hoping she can try to get it some other way for me.   

I have had the entire weekend to myself. In fact I dont' think i've spoken face to face with anyone, other than people in Waitrose or cafe's, for about 6 days.   I feel I'm becoming invisible.   

Fingers crossed.  xx

[Annie0710]

Yes since 3rd week of may I stopped Tibolone and the next day started oestrogel and Tostran and it's since then little changes were starting

I was excited to go to a wedding reception last night, we couldn't drink as we had to be at work this morning but I was chatting away there, I am aware when I'm chatting that I could get some anxiety symptoms and although some mild ones are happening I can overcome them and enjoy myself.  Also just lately I'm enjoying makeup again and I feel much prettier and feminine than I have in a long time

I'm getting married in a few weeks and my daughter wanted to arrange a hen night and I said no, today I've agreed to it and really looking forward to it !

[Pollyanna]

Annie... OMG, you're getting married in a few weeks?  That's amazing news!   How fantastic. 

Your HRT has all worked out in great time for the occasion, hasn't it? 

I had a fab relationship with that ended a year and a half ago.  It only lasted a short while, but we were both potty about each other.  It was complicated though and he's fairly well known which made it more complicated.   I'm still not really over it as we both felt that we'd met our soulmate in our late 50's.   

Anyway, I want to get back to my old self again so I can relocate away from this dull area and back to city living, and get back into work again.   I've never felt so old, living out in the sticks. 

A hen night arranged by your daughter.  That's so lovely. 

[Annie0710]

Oh that's so sad Pollyanna, it's devastating when something good is lost

Yes we've been together almost 8 years but known each other 47 years, we'd been through all our schooling together and I could kick myself we didn't get together years ago, it was by pure chance we did get together when we did actually

He's been my rock throughout this meno, he doesn't understand much of it but acknowledges it and has been so sweet when my libido just suddenly stopped and never pressured me