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[CaroleM]

Please don't laugh. 

When a flush begins I have the weirdest of sensations.  It starts on the soles of my feet and works its way up my body closely followed by the flush.  I get the sensation that feels like I am feeling each and every blood carrying vein and artery physically  widening and opening up.  It actually hurts, a lot.  It doesn't last for too long, once the full flush develops, the pain actually ceases - until the next time.

I did mention this to my last GP, she recently retired, and despite the fact that we always had a good working relationship, she told me point blank that the flushes don't hurt.  Mine do.  Has anyone else ever felt anything similar?  It's worse at night, but do happen during the day as well.  I try to minimise things by trying to start moving my toes and working my way up in an attempt to alleviate the horrible, painful sensation.  It interrupts my already disrupted sleep; causes more pain on top of the  skeletal pain I already have to put up with due to an accident, which affects my legs, back, neck and any other random site it chooses to play me up with; can actually make me want to cry and generally is debilitating.

Please tell me I'm not alone with this one.  Thank you.

[Annie0710]

I've not heard of painful flushes but that's not to say they don't exist.  We are all structurally the same but with different mechanics sometimes so I'd say it's possible

Are you on hrt ?

[Wrensong]

Hi Brighteyes, I'm sorry to hear your flushes are so horrible, but just wanted to say I know what you mean about feeling the vaso-dilation effect.  I didn't start HRT until 3 years after menopause, but during perimenopause when I went months between periods & oestrogen levels were presumably quite high due to infrequent ovulation, the veins in my inner arms used to hurt as if they were being overstretched.  I have since had a repeat of this sensation on starting HRT - when oestrogen levels were increasing & again on each change of regime. 

As I also have Raynaud's, I'm used to a similarly painful, over-widening sensation during the final phase of an episode when blood rushes back into the vessels in feet, hands & most painfully - inner ears.  I believe the pain of migraine involves similar changes.  So I'd say it is indeed possible that you're feeling something similar during flushing.  Wonder whether you also have either migraine or Raynaud's, as I've often thought these conditions must predispose women to greater problems with vasomotor symptoms at menopause.

I more commonly get a different sensation these days - arms, legs & feet burn as if scrubbed with a scouring pad, but this isn't confined to the blood vessels, it's all over.  It's just mildly painful, but definitely more uncomfortable than what I formerly knew as simple flushes.  This burning sensation is worse at night & I often feel slightly nauseous with it.

Like you, I also have a skeletal chronic pain condition that disrupts my sleep, so I really feel for you, as anything else on top can be a lot to cope with.  I don't think you mention whether you are on HRT, but if not, wonder whether this is an option you might want to try to help alleviate the painful flushes.  Sorry I can't help any more.  I hope perhaps a different GP might help you get it sorted.

[CaroleM]

Wrensong, thank you. It sounds daft saying thank you for something that causes pain, I'm sure you know what I mean.

I am now 63 and was taken off HRT when I turned 50.  I was 35 when I had a somewhat unexpected hysterectomy.  It was after a dodgy smear test, repeat test, a camera where cameras were never designed to go, a long examination by the Consultant and then the diagnosis. This all happened within 10 days. My periods had never been "normal".  My insides were better off not being there, better off for me that is.  After the hysto my GP sent off a blood sample for hormone counting.  I wasn't delighted to hear that my levels are about 30 years older than me!

I did ask about other treatment, but only drastic surgery was suitable at the time. Asked again , but everything had to go.  It was caused by bits of my plumbing not going in or being attached to the right bits.

DH was only my boyfriend of 6 weeks, he met my Mum over a hospital bed. Different if nothing else.  We've been together for 28 years and married for 26 in October.

Two days after my op, the Registrar came to see me. I asked for it straight.  Would have had a " wooden overcoat" within 2 years! Ummm.

Yikes,  time for me to let you all enjoy the rest of your day.

[Wrensong]

Brighteyes - how traumatic for you to have gone through all that at such a young age - I'm so sorry.  How wonderful that you are still with your DH after all this time, though.  I'm sorry you had to come off HRT at 50 too.  I won't ask why this was, though I know many GPs are simply very cautious about long-term use.  Does this mean you have continued to have flushes ever since?  It's a long time to feel that bad. 
I waited through over a decade of horrible symptoms before finally starting HRT, so know how debilitating it is when they go on a long time.  Now 5 years post-meno I am still looking for the right regime, as it's come to light I wasn't absorbing well from my previous patches so continued to have symptoms.  I wonder whether your GP could come up with any alternative meds to help with your flushing, if HRT is out of the question now.  Could you face going back to ask or have you already explored other possibilities?

[CaroleM]

I'm adopted, so no family medical history. CLKD says this should not be an issue, but it seems to be. I can see her point.  I was given a hormone blood test before I was 30. The result put me onto HRT at a fairly low level.  I was considered to having reached meno whilst in my mid to late 20's, so the HRT was increased as time went by.  I spent 20 years on HRT and was a very happy bunny. Then came the breast cancer scare.  Off I got taken.

Eventually I was put onto an old fashioned beta blocker which had a side effect of helping to reduce flushes. It helped for a while. Everything returned to "normal".

My new GP has put me onto a low level anti depression tablet to help my sleekness.  I see her on Monday or Tuesday to discuss raising the level of the AP. There are 3 levels and she wants me to take her path and see how things are then. If there is no improvement, she will reconsider HRT.  We've discussed all the risks and I'm doing some serious reading; for, against and natural paths. She is aware that I know how to research, my degree told her that. I think she's had too many patients saying  " google and/or spurious web sites" say heaven alone says what, mostly scare stories I guess.

I had that conversation with a young doctor in the train of Mum's dementia specialist. She stepped in when I said the first person to mention Liverpool Pathway would meet me in Court. She decided to 'explain' what it really was. After about 6 words I stopped her in her tracks by informing her that like her, I have a good degree and know how to do my research. Subject was instantly closed.

Proper sleep and no painful flushes would be wonderful. Being tired is beginning to really drag me down. I'm fortunate to have been blessed with good genes, in that my skin is great. For that I am eternally grateful.  My biological mother was 38 when she gave birth to me. The male in the equation I know nothing about other than a name and he denied paternity. He was classed as having abandoned me.

They say what doesn't kill you makes you stronger, that's fine. If only it didn't come at such a cost. 

[Wrensong]

I can see that the breast cancer issue is a particular worry if you don't know family history.  It is for me too - my mother died of breast cancer, which is the main reason I waited for more than a decade, desperate for symptoms to stop, before finally starting HRT.  In the end I felt I had to do whatever I could to give myself a chance at better quality of life.  I took advice from a top endocrinologist & a well-respected gynae & both felt HRT was the right choice for me, given symptoms were extreme & still showing no sign of stopping by 3 years post-meno.  My lovely GP is more cautious & doesn't want me to continue long-term, so having made the decision to start & feeling better with HRT than without (albeit with a long way to go to feel great) I have to be firm in my resolve. 

Like you, I have other health conditions and the combination can just have too great an effect on daily life.  I don't need to tell you that chronically poor sleep can have widespread effects, so I think you are sensible to read around to feel well informed before going back to your GP, hopefully confident in whatever path you decide you'd like to explore.  The proverbial bus is often mentioned on the forum & there is a lot of wisdom in that.  None of us knows what the future holds, we can only try to make the best decision for ourselves at any given time & doing so after careful research & consideration seems the most sensible way to me.  I really hope you can make some good progress and will soon start to feel much better.

[CaroleM]

Thank you Wrensong.

[CaroleM]

It's silly week trying to get a HP's appointment.

Apparently their computer system crashed over the weekend. Yesterday they were handling medical emergencies only, fair enough. It did take, wait for it, 183 attempts in 40 minutes to get a reply! I looked at the call log on my mobile once I'd spoken to reception. 

Rang today, not at 08.00, bad night, no hear alarm! Out of 6 GPS, 3 are on leave. It's a case of ring in and hope. No late appointment being left open.

So, here I am, tummy being unfriendly and waiting for the next painful flush. Tummy usually lasts 24 hours, developed IBS when at uni in my 40's. However this one isn't playing nicely.  Only thing I can put it down to is the green tier of a multi tiered sponge I experimented with. Used Wilton's colouring system and blue + yellows = green. Yellow alone OK, blunt alone fine, in combination not fine.

There is a comical side effect to this. I can poo green poo .

Anyway, I'lll try to be awake at 8 tomorrow morning. Wish me luck!

Bright eyes

[Wrensong]

Ooh Brighteyes - at least there's no disputing you've been eating your greens!  I hope the tummy has settled by now & of course I wish you luck with the GP appt.  Are you actually seeing the GP tomorrow or are you just hoping to ring at eight to get an appt?

[CaroleM]

Hello Wrensong,

Appointments are being made at 08.00 for the same day. It seems silly having 50% of the GPS on leave at the same time. What on earth would happen if one of the 3 working had an accident. Locums aren't exactly like turning the tap on.

DH has had no poo issues, just me. So he had better eat the green tier! Eating my greens is obviously not good for me
Hasn't done much for my flushes any good either.

[Wrensong]

Yes, the GP staffing issue does sound a bit like poor planning, but I expect there was good reason.  Hope you managed to get an appt & the outcome is good.

[CaroleM]

Good afternoon Wrensong,

Intended to see GP today, but finally got to sleep around 05.00.  Then overslept!  Tomorrow I plan to arrive at the surgery at 08.00, kindle in hand and prepared to wait.  Must remember to turn the radio alarm up louder though

DH went out for a while, he came back about an hour ago to find me fast asleep and PollyMarie hen sat beside me "on guard duty".  The fact that I was asleep pleased him, it meant my pain levels are manageable.

I've no idea why the practice manager would agree to 50% of the doctors on leave at the same time. Various retirements mean we now have much younger GPS, so I suppose they want to get holidays in before the schools resume.  It's the only explanation I can think of.

How are you today?  Not quite so much pain I hope.  Having to work out which is " normal" pain and fatigue and which is down to the meno can be draining just in itself.  On top of that, it looks like rain isn't too far away, wonderful, now my skeletal ironmongery can hurt even more!

DH has just announced then we're going to the garden centre's Steak Night for tea.  Flushes are banned for a couple of hours!  I'd rather stay at home but he has arranged it as a treat to try to take my mind off things.  It's really kind of him, so a few deep breaths are required to calm everything down and we are going to have a lovely meal and explore the water gardening section.  His stroke makes it hard sometimes for him to get his head totally around how I am feeling, so when he does I appreciate all the more.

Have a peaceful, pain limited evening,
Bright eyes.

[Wrensong]

Hi there Brighteyes, sorry to hear your night was so bad.  How lovely that your hen watched over you.  Yes, I wondered whether your report of so many GPs off together was down to the school hols. 

It sounds as though your pain is constant - that must be terribly hard to bear.  Is there nothing than can be done to help manage it?  There's no need to talk about it if you'd rather not - I know that living with pain can be a highly emotive situation & I would hate to stir it up for you.

Thank you for asking about mine - I'm lucky that it's postural & generally only occurs when I lie down, which means I'm mostly pain-free during the day, but of course it makes getting adequate sleep difficult.  The burning pain in limbs I mentioned when you asked whether anyone had pain on flushing, is really very slight, so easy to live with.  The sleep issue is another matter though!

I hope you have a lovely meal out & that the water garden section is interesting.  Yes, I think it can be nigh on impossible for men to have much idea of the extent of menopausal effects - come to that I had absolutely no idea myself before it happened to me, so never expect anyone who hasn't been there, man or woman, to be able to get close to grasping it!  I'm sorry you both have your husband's health issues to deal with on top of your own.  Life can be very unfair sometimes.  Sounds as though your husband is very thoughtful though - I'm very fortunate that way too - couldn't have wished for anyone more supportive.

Hope the meal out is uplifting & that you have a much better night afterwards - sometimes a change of scene can be just what's needed.

[CaroleM]

Hello Wrensong,

The meal was lovely but next time I am going to have to ask for a child's portion!  Got 2 dahlias for £8.00, full of buds; a very large and full flowered begonia, pink ice cream colours and doubled flowers; a book on rock and water garden expert series and my favorite saffron fruit loaf

Once I get to see my GP in the morning I hope we will have time to fit in a drive to Newton Abbott before going to visit my Mum in her care home. Sadly she has dementia. Mind you, at less than a month off her 95th birthday, she's out doing all of us. Her only medication, calcium chews which she is an expert at hiding. I haven't been for a long time, just felt that I was not in the right place to cope with visits. To say the least, I feel very guilty, but it wouldn't have made too much sense for me to upset her since she can take one look at me and tell you both my pain and stress levels!

After 40+ years I have got used to my physical pain. Long term morphine got totally scary. To everyone's surprise I got fed up with them and refused any more of it. Now I live on fairly inoccuous pain killers. Mum never understood how Daddy could take his medication and still function including driving.  She understood it even less with me.  He never told her how close I came to loosing my left leg half way up my thigh, nor that it was believed I would never walk again. For him, if you don't talk about something, it isn't happening. He died 36 years ago and I miss him every day. There are times Mum has no memory of him and others when she does. 

Hopefully my plan to turn up at the surgery will be successful and I get to see my GP. Fingers crossed.

Try to get a decent night's sleep. That is for every one of us.

Bright eyes.