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[Krista]

Hi everyone,

My periods stopped around three years ago and roughly since that time I have had anxiety and depression like you wouldn't believe. Stomach churning, suicidal thoughts/planning and panic attacks. Now around this time I started taking sleeping tablets (which I'm coming off) plus my personal life took a nosedive. I have been trying to figure out why I have this anxiety and have started to think that it may be linked to the menopause. I read a newspaper article Carol Vorderman did about her depression and the menopause - she said BHRT did the trick. I am on Estriol cream for vaginal atrophy (sorry lol) and wanted to ask if anyone else had depression since menopause and if so, did you get it resolved?

I'm assuming I'd need to go private to get BHRT? Oh I also got the doctor at my practise to run a hormone check and my results came back ok but I'm now reading that this is standard for menopausal women and doesn't give the whole story as to hormone depletion.

I am just so sick and tired of feeling like this. My life has stopped because my anxiety is so bad. It's difficult to know whether my problems are psycological or biological but I keep thinking I should try BHRT?

Thanks,

K

[Woodlands]

Hello honey.
I started with anxiety in peri when I was 48, now 54...
Long story but survived divorce, very stressful job, house moves x2 and the death of my eldest son two years ago.
I take citralopam and propananol...if I can get well anyone can. I have no partner.
How did I do it, mindfullness, avoid caffeine, eat little and often......look always at the positives and re evaluated whats important in your life.
Hugs Woodlands xx

[Krista]

Hi Woodlands,

I'm so sorry to hear about your son.

I've been reading the guys website who treated Carol Vorderman and he says a lot of middle aged women are prescribed AD when they can be treated with BHRT. I'm on AD and they don't work for me so I'm wondering if it's my hormones instead. If you started having anxiety at 48 - did you get HRT or just AD's? Do you feel "normal" again? You know the more I think about it the more I'm thinking I should ask my doctor about this next time. And if no luck there, I might go private. Anxiety is so tough!!

[babyjane]

Hi Krista, you are right and there are some ladies here who know a lot about menopausal anxiety, depression and HRT.  I am sure someone will post a reply soon that will offer you the support you need.

I just wanted to welcome you as I don't use HRT so cannot advise you. 

[Krista]

Thanks BabyJane,

I'm just browsing these forums and learning about stuff in general.

[CLKD]

Regardless of the 'cause' of your suicidal thoughts, i.e. hormonal or clinical, you need to speak with your GP ASAP or Samaritans.  It may take ages to find a suitable HRT and I have never read details here as to how long HRT can take to decrease depression/anxiety but certainly appropriate anti-depressants and/or a med to ease anxiety should be considered.

Localised HRT for vaginal atrophy is often essential,  we have several threads on that here .......

What is BHRT?   I haven't seen anything about Carol Voderman's experiences.

[Krista]

I've found the Samaritans and doc to be pretty much useless for me re depression and thoughts. I had three months of CBT and that didn't work, so now I'm thinking it's hormonal or it's the sleeping tablets (although I'm on a low dose sleeping tablet).

I'm just looking into HRT (BHRT is biodentical hormone replacement therapy) - shows how little I know - I thought my Estriol cream was HRT but it seems this cream only helps with the nether regions.

Not sure I'm allowed to post a link but if you Google Carol Vorderman menopause Daily Mail, you'll see her article come up. She had bad depression and suicidal thoughts around the time of menopause - went to see a doctor - got BHRT and was back to her old self a couple of days later. I don't know the difference between HRT and BHRT but am going to ask my doc for some of either.

Edited to add link:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/femail/article-4501426/Carol-Vorderman-says-NHS-offer-women-bespoke-HRT.html

[CLKD]

Hormone Replacement Therapy is a mine-field until one sorts through it all.  Many ladies get on well with biodenticals ....... browse round, make notes.  Read the green menus on here which should help.  A couple of days seems rather fast, though having been listened to will have helped Carol V I expect, her story has been mentioned here but I missed it  .......  CBT didn't work for me either as my anxiety was engrained from shortly after birth. 

The problem I found with the Samaritans was that I never spoke to the same person twice as they don't want a 'relationship' built between the sufferer and volunteer.  Which meant that at a time when I was hardly able to move due to depression, I had to keep repeating my story ....... I gave up  . 

Treatment for atrophy is an HRT in that as oestrogen levels drop off, the body may become dry: deep in the ears, eyes, skin, vagina    - I have found Ovestin used regularly helps enormously, others use Vagifem - along with moisturisers if necessary to the outer area.  For me it was like razor blades up there! 

[Jenna]

Not sure I'm allowed to post a link but if you Google Carol Vorderman menopause Daily Mail, you'll see her article come up. She had bad depression and suicidal thoughts around the time of menopause - went to see a doctor - got BHRT and was back to her old self a couple of days later. I don't know the difference between HRT and BHRT but am going to ask my doc for some of either.

Krista - here's the thread discussing it at the time:

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,35819.0.html

[Kathleen]

Hello Krista and welcome to the forum.

I know exactly how you feel. Anxiety and depression really started for me when my periods stopped plus standard HRT hasn't stopped the flushing. I am now thinking about going to a private menopause clinic and/or emailing Dr Currie.

There are many ladies here who will understand how you feel so you are not alone.

Take care.

K.

[Krista]

Learnt quite a bit reading these forums and the links provided - thankyou to all who have replied. It seems I don't need to go private for HRT (and that most (BHRT is plant based anyway - need to learn more about that). I was under the impression that BHRT could only be described privately. Will talk to my doc and need to read more on this, but I'm seeing a light at the end of the tunnel now. Maybe it IS my hormones after all. I read somewhere that bipolar condition is given to around 90% of women. Funny that the percentage is so high - maybe it's their hormones too.

You know I never had one single flush - all I've noticed is the anxiety and depression. I'm going to my doctor to get HRT patches/gels. Not sure which are the best but from reading the forums, it seems different things work for different people.

Kathleen, what do you think will be different if you go private?

Thanks again everyone. I will keep you updated.

[CLKD]

Many GPs still believe that unless a woman reports flushes, she isn't peri or menopausal  .  For me it was more of an all over 'glow' after my evening bath  which lasted about 10 mins. each evening.  For about 6-9 months.  Then went.

Take a list to your GP perhaps: date of LMP; symptoms you have noticed int he last 3-4 months; the symptom you struggle with the most ..... then let us know?

[Mary G]

Krista, you might find GypsyRoseLee's posts interesting, she suffered with hormonal depression and anxiety and has had great success with Professor Studd's regime i.e. the same as Carol Volderman.  I am also using the same regime but at a different dose for different problems and have found it to be the best HRT regime by far.  My problem was endless sweating and poor thermostatic control and Oestrogel has completely eradicated the problem.   

As shortie says, you can obtain Professor Studd's preferred regime of Oestrogel (gel you rub on your skin) Utrogestan (micronised progesterone capsules best used vaginally) and testosterone gel from the NHS and you can even simply walk into a pharmacy in Spain while on holiday and buy Oestrogel and Utrogestan over the counter and without a prescription. 

However, my personal opinion, which is based on my own experience, is that the key to success for this regime is getting the dose of each product right and for that you often need expert advice, I know I did.  Obviously everyone absorbs each product differently and everyone has different tolerance levels of each product but as a general guide, women with hormonal depression and anxiety need very high doses of oestrogen to get relief.  For example, GypsyRoseLee is on 4 pumps of Oestrogel everyday but I am only on 2 pumps everyday so it's a case of different doses for different problems. 

Other factors also come into play i.e. how well do you tolerate progesterone?  This has a huge impact on the success of any HRT regime and too much of it can drown out the positive effects of the oetrogen and ruin your regime if you are either sensitive or intolerant to progesterone used in HRT preparations.  Again, how this part of your HRT is prescribed can make or break your regime. 

I take it you have read Professor Studd's website and in particular the part about hormonal depression? 

My advice would be to go straight for the Oestrogel/Utrogestan regime and specifically ask you doctor for it - you could also ask for testosterone but that might be more difficult.  To be blunt, if you are suffering from hormonal depression and anxiety, I doubt that a continuous combined oral form of HRT will cut it - I realise many women do well on these forms of HRT but that is probably because they are just trying to control straightforward symptoms. 

I think you need a regime with maximum flexibility allowing you to adjust the oestrogen dose quickly and easily which is why I would strongly recommend Oestrogel. 

I'm sorry I can't advise on ADs but I do know that many women use HRT and ADs and do very well.

This is just my own personal opinion based on my past experiences.  I hope that helps. 

[CLKD]

   Mary G

[Hurdity]

Hi Krista

  from me too.

I agree with all that's been said about hormones!

The other thing is - how long have you been taking an AD?  If you started before menopause or close to it and started taking it for anxiety rather than menopause ( because you and your doc didn't realise it was due to hormones) - it could have stopped you experiencing hot flushes. ADs are recognised as a prescribable non HRT for women who are medically contra-indicated for HRT eg have had breast cancer or a blood clot etc. If this is the case then the obvious signs of menopause (flushes and sweats) might be absent hence the delay in realising the cause?

If you have been taking an AD for years then the same reasoning applies and doc would not attribute your symptoms to menopause - which of course they should. HRT is the first line of treatment for menopause, not ADs - as recognised and recommended by NICE Guidelines, menopause societies and medical protocols.

Re the BHRT. The confusion arises due to the use of this term. BHRT is the name given to the treatment known as Bioidentical Hormone Replacement Therapy - which usually consists of compounded hormones available only privately and are unregulated and very expensive. This practice arose in US where the health care system is different ( but is not FDA approved there) and certainly not recommended in UK. BHRT as a therapy as described above must be distinguished from the use of bioidentical hormones for HRT which as has already been described, is available on NHS as the 3 hormones - as shortie said earlier. Unfortunately this confusion leads women up the wrong and expensive path. As already said oestrogen and progesterone are available easily on NHS ( though some GP practices are notoriously difficult and won't prescribed them!) but testosterone can be more difficult as the only preparation readily available (testosterone gel) is not licensed for women. I had to go privately for this - and have yet to test the system by getting it on NHS.

As shortie said - start the oestrogen and progesterone first until you settle on the right regime and hopefully you can introduce testosterone.

Hopefully you will then be able to come off your AD unless this is long standing since before menopause. Incidentally what sleeping tablet do you take - is it a benzo?

Also it is absolutely fine to post the link to the article - in fact would be helpful to have on this thread as it's relevant to your story. What we're not allowed to post are commercial links or names of websites selling menopausal products especially, or seeming to promote these.

Definitely read the links to Studd's work on reproductive depression. In fact here is a starter ( look down the tabs on lhs and rhs and you will see the stuff on depression). http://www.studd.co.uk/reproductivedepression.php

Hope this helps

Hurdity x