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[GypsyRoseLee]

And, I felt really quite nauseous when I woke up this morning too. Is nausea a sign of low oestrogen, does anyone know?

[Tempest]

Hi, GRL!

Yes, I had EXACTLY the same issues as you and I brought this to Professor Lumsden's attention at a previous appointment.

It's NOT your imagination! I also developed a rash on Oestrodose that I didn't have with the Estrogel!

I have now given up on HRT altogether and I'm glad of it! I was sick to death of the ups and downs, product inconsistencies, supply problems and being palmed off with sub standard generics which did not work as well as the 'branded' products. We're definitely getting short changed here and and then led to believe it must be in 'all in our heads' when we query it.

Sending hugs your way. xxxxx

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Tempest

Did you feel better on the oestrogel, then? How did the oestrodose make you feel?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Stella

Definitely not a virus. I have a bit of backache, and mild period pain cramps and my period is due. So I think it's all connected. Last month my period came and went without a murmer. The only difference this month is that I have been using oestrodose for the last week.

[Elizabethrose]

Hi GypsyRoseLee

I'm really sorry you're having a problem again.

It just occurred to me when I read that you have a period due, could this be that your own hormones are interacting here? My surges and plummets increased the further into peri I moved. HRT, at no matter what level, was unable to suppress my own cycle. I wonder whether the Oestrodose/Oestrogel change may be coincidental.

Forgive me for butting in here as I'm not too familiar with your history: I can only say the increasingly dramatic side effects I experienced as I moved further into peri were fairly overpowering especially just before a period. That was always my danger zone.

I would speak to a pharmacist, more than one if possible and if you still feel unconvinced try Prof Studd's secretary. Explain you are feeling increasingly anxious about this and all you need is some quick advice.

I hope you find an answer soon and feel better x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Elizabeth

I think what is happening is a combination of my period being due, and the oestrodose not being as effective? Last month my period came and went with no problems. Same the month before. I suppose it could be that my own cycle is having a more forceful surge this month?

I have just taken delivery of a box of Estrogel, sent from the pharmacy which supplies Prof Studd in London. I got his secretary to fax my script through to them, and it has just arrived by special delivery. Can't fault such excellent customer service.

I have just applied the estrogel and can confirm it is definitely thicker in consistency than the gel in oestrodose, and it smells faintly of surgical alcohol, and the oestrodose gel doesn't. So SOMETHING is definitely different between the two.

[Elizabethrose]

Well thank goodness you've had a supply delivered. Hopefully all will calm for you. Every single month/period started to differ for me. Some slipped by unnoticed whilst others were a nightmare. Interestingly, the short often anovulatory cycles were always the worst.

Good luck, hope all calms x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks ElizabethRose

I don't know how to tell if I have an anovulatory cycle or not? I suppose I got complacent thinking I'd had a few months with no problems, then this happens. Did you find the fluctuations calmed down in time?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks Stellajane

I don't know about the legal implications, but the gel is definitely a different consistency and smell.

[Elizabethrose]

GypsyRoseLee, read Machair's thread below. It details us all describing our cycles both ovulatory and anovulatory. None of us were using HRT so that may therefore complicate you identifying what is happening to you. You may be able to recognise some common signs though.

https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php/topic,31902.0.html

I've also cut and pasted a response I gave Menomale when she asked me a similar question. Hope it helps!! x


Re: Joint pain flares when oestrogen levels suddenly drop.
« Reply #13 on: September 08, 2016, 07:00:33 AM »
ReplyQuoteModifyModifyRemoveRemove
Hi Menomale

Not a silly question at all that would be a sensible conclusion. Unfortunately I'm ridiculously reactive/sensitive to hormone change so as my body reacts like litmus paper, it's very easy to read the signs.

For many years I've had specialists from a number of disciplines trying to manage my chronic migraine. Bloods have been taken regularly; fertility monitors were used daily, temps were monitored and comprehensive daily records kept. All tests confirmed what I already knew was happening. I've been menstruating for 44 years now, despite the chaos of peri, I can still pretty much read my body like a book.

If I ovulate, slippery egg-white type cervical mucus appears just before ovulation, I get ovulation pain and a slight bloody show and front of breast tenderness. The mucus would last for about 2 days then disappear, as would the breast tenderness. The bleed would arrive about 13 days later accompanied by period cramps, swollen breasts, bloating and migraine that could rebound for anything up to 13 days. Then the whole thing would start again. If I ovulate, this happens without fail.

If the cycle is unovulatory, slippery egg-white type cervical mucus builds and front of breast tenderness starts. There is no ovulation pain and no bloody show. The mucus stops suddenly for a couple of days and then rebuilds, the breasts swell hugely, necessitating bigger bras and they become very, very painful. I start bloating and can literally put on half a stone. All can continue like this for anything up to 6-7 weeks. These oestrogen highs can be off the Richter scale, all has been measured.

A sudden drop manifests itself as a sudden cessation of all of the above symptoms: it feels like I've been slung against a wall. I pee constantly, a monster migraine kicks in which is what happened this weekend and which can rebound for ages. Sometimes I will then get an anovulatory bleed. The cervical mucus is still present and mixes with the blood loss. It looks different to the loss of a normal period. My body is pretty adept at shedding any endometrial build up from these oestrogen surges. It's had plenty of practice!

This sudden surge of joint pain with a crash and bleed is new to me, I haven't noticed this before.

[GypsyRoseLee]

That is so useful Elizabeth, thank you so much.

I recognise much of what you describe, though I have never yet had a month where I don't have some sort of bleed around the 25th of the month. But, yes I can appear 5 months pregnant because I am that bloated around my stomach.

Since the weekend I have noticed I've been getting joint pain in my toes and ankle and knuckles, which I haven't experienced since going onto 4 pumps of estrogel last summer. This would correlate with starting the oestrodose gel, so presumably my body not getting the oestrogen it needs, especially as I was entering my late luteal phase, with a period imminent?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Stella - it took nearly a year for me to realise I was suffering with the peri menopause. I had seen 2 female GPs who refused to believe I could be peri menopausal because I was 'only' 43. It was only when I saw a male GP whose wife had suffered in the peri menopause, that I was correctly diagnosed.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Good to hear from you GRL!

I'm MIS71MUM but messed my account up by mistake.

The last I remember you were going to trial tiblone/zoladex. Did you change your mind? Xx

Sorry I missed this Mis71Mum 

I was going to trial it, yes, but bottled out at the last minute. Then since the start of the year I have felt I was really improving, so decided to stick with the estrogel + utrogestan regime, still. Still had several bad days, but not as severe as before.

How are you?

[Elizabethrose]

Could be, or it could be that your own cycle plunged which for me accounted for increased joint pain etc towards the later stages of peri. It could just be your own hormones dong their thing! It's a minefield!

If you are getting a bleed on the 25th day regularly that could be your own cycle which in peri often reduces early on. When on HRT my own cycle was completely erratic, 9 days upwards, some months I had 3 bleeds, one HRT induced and two short cycles of my own. It was horrendous.

If I were you I would chart, keep a detailed daily record. Every specialist I saw insisted upon it. Don't get bogged down with detail, just take three mins each day to record what is happening. i.e. swollen breasts, bloating, changes in mucus, joint pain, any bleeding however minimal, ovulation pain etc etc. A story will emerge quite quickly.

Good luck to you, this is such a trying time! x

[GypsyRoseLee]

That's a good idea Elizabeth, I used to keep a daily diary last year but as I improved I stopped.

I do think my own cycle has somehow crashed big time, this month? Despite my specialised HRT I still think my own cycle is quite powerful, and determines how I feel day to day. For the last 2 years my periods have been very light, and only lasting 2-3 days max. Since Xmas they have been barely noticeable, I don't even really need a panty liner, which makes me wonder what 4 pumps of estrogel are doing, because they're not making the lining of my womb build up much at all? And it's only ever a brownish flow I get. Some months I don't even get a withdrawl bleed when I finish the Utrogestan, either. But I never suffer with bloated, painful breasts anymore (I used to).

It's a mystery - I wonder if I have a very high tolerance to oestrogen, and can absorb far more of it, without physical problems, than most women?