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[Stellajane]

Reading another thread about bladder problems made me think about this one. 

Does anyone else experience early morning bladder nuisance, ie needing to go a lot after first getting up and having say just one cup of tea with breakfast. Its a real pain (always has been) because if I'm going on a journey I simply can't have a drink otherwise I need a wee within the hour. Its as my mother used to say "it goes straight through without touching the sides". I could only ever have a couple of mouthfuls of drink with my breakfast when commuting to work or it could be a very uncomfortable journey.

If we're on holiday and I forget and have a nice big mug of tea with breakfast then we set off somewhere in the car it can be such a pain having to find a loo.  After a couple of hours everything settles down and I'm absolutely fine but that early morning period .... I'm really envious of people like my mum and sister who in contrast could always enjoy a couple of cups of tea and still not need to go again till lunchtime!

[Scampi]

I can't remember when my first drink of the day didn't go straight through, so I thought it was normal! 

On work days I get a coffee on my way to work, knowing that (as long as the train isn't delayed) I'll make it to work ok (and there's toilets in the station, or on the train in an emergency!).  If we're going somewhere, hubby just accepts that I will need a 'potty stop' a maximum of an hour after my first cuppa - we just plan it in. 

I also have no issues with needing the loo for the rest of the day - just after that first drink.

[Ju Ju]

Yes, and also after a BM.

[Elizabethrose]

Stellajane, this has happened to me for years, really since starting peri about 16 years ago. I have to pee repeatedly, constantly, till mid morning when all starts to calm. It is such a pain! For the rest of the day I hardly go.

I too have to avoid drinking anything first thing in the morning if I'm going out, as I'll have to visit every lavatory (I have a long inventory of available loos!) on my journey. Sorry for too much information but hubby is very used to me hiding in the bushes to pee when out walking! (Hasten to add, not in public places!!)

Very interestingly, since starting Vagifem in November it has calmed dramatically, the flow has also become more directional (?) and any slight leakage I had with coughing or sneezing etc has almost disappeared too. Bonus!

[Dancinggirl]

Stellajane - as the others have said, this early morning ‘need to pee' is exactly what I get and it's as though my body is expelling all it's fluids!!!!.  As the day wears on I can go longer between pees.
I have a number of theories which may be absolute nonsense.
I get up at least 2 times to pee in the night and try to restrict how much I drink during the evening - if I don't drink enough I will get burning by morning.  I do have a small cup of tea first thing and then need to pee at least 3 times in the next couple of hours, where does all this urine come from especially when I've had so many night sweats!!!! - tea is a diuretic so that is probably why.
I do wonder if gravity squashes our bladder and urethra during the day thereby preventing urine from passing through well - then at night, while lying down, the bladder and urethra is freed up to fill and expel the urine waste???
First thing in the morning the gravity takes time to do it's worst?
To avoid burning and UTIs developing, it is vital to drink enough fluids, however, tea and coffee are diuretic and will stimulate the need to pee - so avoiding these is good.  I do love my small cup of tea in the morning though.
Isn't all this a pain and nuisance   Dg x

[Elizabethrose]

Start the Vagifem and you'll be peeing straight down again! So weird! 

[Maryjane]

Yes oestrogen and p like a horse again re direction .

[Taz2]

Yes, and also after a BM.

That's interesting Ju Ju - I get this but it's caused (they think) by adhesions welding(!) my bladder and bowel together following hysterectomy.

Taz x

[Ju Ju]

I was told that when the bowel is irritated, then the bladder is. I'm so used to it.

As to needing to pee, I can't compete with DH! When we arrive somewhere, without fail he seeks out the loos. It's all to do with his prostrate, which has been checked through the years. When camping in NZ and OZ, he would measure how many strides it was to the loos and if he felt it was too far, we would move elsewhere! And I thought I was fussy!

[Dana]

Yes I'm another morning pee-er. Normally it doesn't bother me because there will usually be a loo handy wherever I am, but if loo locations are going to be a less certain I'm pretty nervous about having much to drink at all.

[Woodlands]

Ladies caffeine can act as a diuretic.......hence the need to pee.....NEVER restrict fluids....urine becomes more concentrated and irritates the bladder wall.
Work on expanding the bladder by dronking more......I go hours without a pee.....years of working with folks needing toileting support xx

[Taz2]

Any useful information here? https://www.bladderandbowelfoundation.org/bladder/

Taz x 

[Ju Ju]

I try not to get dehydrated, as I get a burning sensation. I'd rather drink more and go to the loo more, than that.

[CLKD]

That advice was pushed by the bottled drinks companies  .  The body should adjust output dependant on what we eat/drink over all because we take in fluids in food too.  Also, never restrict fluids because the kidneys will work harder and the bladder becomes irritated = the need to pee more.  There is a hormone which should lessen the need to pee in the night but sometimes this goes awry ......

Make sure that the bladder is emptied at least every 2.5 hours during the day, whether one feels the need/not!  It doesn't do the bladder any good to hold onto urine ........ if I hang on too long I get pain in the appendix area  . 

Maybe dry bicarb of soda in a glass of water twice a day, i.e. mid-monirng and an hour B4 bed.  I find that taking a Nurofen tablet gives relief too, taken B4 bed.

[Menomale]

Hi ladies,

Stellajane, I have the same pattern. No night urgency but in the morning I can smell the coffee after 3 or 4 toilet trips.

I think many things play a role, one is hormones. Antidiuretic hormone (ADH) or vasopressin is the hormone that tells your kidneys to absorb water according to the baroreceptors spread throughout your blood vessels. It is produced and stored in the the brain and does not seem to be affected by ageing and menopause. The other hormone is oestrogen with its multitude of actions, one being directly related to genital integrity, ie. vaginal atrophy and the inability to control the urethra sphincter.

But why in the morning? Most articles and discussions deal with nocturia or nocturnal polyuria, etc. There are only a few that slightly touch the morning or matutinal urination frequency (I couldn't find the technical word, if there is one).

The inability to concentrate urine during ageing seems to be the most important factor. There are few studies on the subject that I could find and most use rats, one of these discussed that some decrease in protein production could be the cause and a poor protein diet would worsen the problem as well as changes in glucocorticoids levels (maybe the link to matutinal/nocturnal different patterns?). https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3670161/

My latest urine tests all show a decrease in urine sediment or low specific gravity. None of the doctors said anything about it though. I've read that decreased SG is seen in excessive fluid intake, renal failure, pyelonephritis, and central and nephrogenic diabetes insipidus. False low readings are associated with alkaline urine (eg, a high-citrate diet). My fluid intake is below the average (I simply do not feel thirsty, but I rarely sweat). My renal tests are normal and urine pH readings are acid. I'm vegetarian so maybe my protein intake is low and may contribute to the decrease in urine concentrating ability and the cortisol (glucocorticoids) surges of perimenopause which are worse in the morning.

On a side note, maybe we just sweat less as we age due to less physical exercise and that would be more important in the morning (well, that depends on the level of nocturnal activities,  ) and less evident as the day goes by (more activities = more sweating) and thus the need to pee more frequently in the morning... does it make any sense?