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[abbyH]

Just got back from six month follow up after Totsl hysterectomy and BSO..
The consultant ( who is very nice). Told me that one of my options was not to take HRT as I would have been in natural menopause anyway soon

I'm confused. All the literature I've read suggests that even after natural menopause our ovaries don't just stop producing oestrogen and trstoetone but in sudden surgical menopause it's a different story and we need the add back hormones for sure, even if we were at that tipping point of peri to full meno..

What are other people's thoughts on this ? She didn't seem at all concerned to be honest or even talk about hormone balance, it was just to relieve "symptoms"

She's recommended I switch from gel to patch which I'm tempted to do to get a better and more reliable delivery route

Am also seeing Dr Panay on the 30th so will probably not do anything until then to be honest..

So confused as there seems to be so much conflicting advice..

Abby x

[Rhiner]

Hi Abbey,

1 week after I had my ovaries removed I had a total hormone crash, could hardly function, very faint, weakness so could hardly stand, head in a complete daze, couldn't walk more than a few yards, then insomnia, then very low mood.  My consultant also said I did not need HRT, as I was 3 years since last period, so post meno.  He would not believe that it was a hormone crash, took blood, oestrogen zero!

He finally agreed after 2 weeks of getting worse to put me on HRT and you are correct, was very sensitive to the slightest change in dose. Took Femoston conti first, then after 8 weeks really bad headaches kicked in. My consultant did not want to know!!!!!!

I then found a meno specialist through this forum and changed to patches, initially 50ug then settled on 75ug.  It took several weeks to settle, after about 3 weeks on 75, started to feel better. After 8 weeks on the patch then added the prog part, as I still have my uterus.

I have never experienced anything like this in my life and the fact that I was then ignored by the gynae who had done the removal, made things even worse.

Rhiner

[abbyH]

  This makes me mad!
How on earth are we supposed to go about life in a healthy and productive way if we are given all this conflicting advice?

Poor you, I'm sorry.. My symptoms have not been so drastic, but a lot more hair loss and weight gain than I'd prefer, plus insomnia but that's been going on a long time

So patch is working for you? Im wondering if I'm just really really hormone sensitive and can't take much, but I do need to increase my oestrogen levels I know that

Abby

[Rhiner]

Hi Abby , Yes the patch works great now, probably because its a constant dose, BUT it did take several weeks to find the right dose, e.g. on 62.5ug, I was feeling very faint and weak, 75ug did make a difference.  As you say slight changes in dose seem to make a huge difference in our case.

For the insomnia, I took a very low dose amitriptilne for a few weeks until my hormones stabilised again. Never suffered from insomnia in my life before this.

Rhiner

[abbyH]

I wonder why the consultant didn't tell me to increase the patch/dose as needed? 50 seems quite low dose for someone with no ovaries!

[Rhiner]

Abby, If this helps, the meno specialist I see now said that the 'usual' dose range without ovaries is anywhere between 50 to 125ug patch. Hope this helps.
Rhiner

[Joesmum]

Hi Abby,
I'm so glad you're seeing Dr. Panay because your consultant sounds terrible.

[Tempest]

Hi Abby and Rhiner!

Oooooh, yes!!!!!! I was told EXACTLY the same, and this is how I've ended up in the mess I'm in now almost 2 years after my surgery after believing the surgeon who said I didn't need HRT after my surgery for over a year!

Rhiner, just like you I had the hormone crash about 6 weeks after my surgery, and have had 2 more of these after my HRT was stopped abruptly and another when I was placed on the Estradot 25 after previously building up a decent level on 3 pumps of Estrogel. This most recent episode is why I haven't been around on here too much lately - that fiasco has almost been the end of me!

Abby - don't do ANYTHING until you see Dr. Panay. I can confidently say that that advice you've just received is completely idiotic and if indeed as some point in the future you DO want to try without HRT, it would need to be tapered very gradually.

For the love of God, I'm getting completely sick of health care professionals who haven't got a clue about the differences between a natural and surgically induced menopause. It's not rocket science for heaven's sake!

Natural = declining ovarian function, but ovaries still produce hormones albeit in such smaller amounts into old age.

Surgical = no ovaries!!!!! So the blighters aren't there and can't produce ANYTHING AT ALL!! It's up to our fat deposits, adrenals and other more complex conversion processes to produce ovarian hormones to meet our needs for the rest of our lives, and it's tough for our bodies to do this overnight when our ovaries are removed or if some 'healthcare professional ' (and I use the phrase loosely) decides on a whim that they think they'll just stop our HRT cold turkey as we can 'probably manage'.

It's not very often that I lose the rag, but I'm really, really angry at the complete load of Ill informed nonsense us surgical menopause ladies are being hit with! 

Sending biggest hugs to both of you as we are in this journey together, and thank you so much Rhiner for your wonderful words of support to me during my recent struggles.

[Rhiner]

Very well said Tempest! I fully agree with your comments. I don't know what I would have done without this forum and the advice given.  I hope you are starting to feel a little better now.
Rhiner

[abbyH]

Tempest/Rhiner.. Together we are stronger ladies!!!!

This is terrible, this is the consultant who did my surgery (very well I'm sure!) but who my Doc had told me to get more 'HRT ADVICE' from

I'm ignoring her of course.. I am not going to do anything or adjust anything until I see Dr Panay - on the 30th! I'm on Oestrogel and will just stick with that until I know more...

It does seem really ridiculous to suggest that because I was tipping into the natural menopause that it wouldn't be an issue to have ovaries removed, of course it is!

my respect for her professional knowledge has gone down somewhat.. I think the whole slap a patch on them and get them out the door is really, really terrible. Takes no account of a) thryoid, b) individual response to hormones and c) anything else!


When, can we (50% of the population and tax payers) get decent NHS-funded PROPER advice and consultants in our area who know what they are doing and can confidently prescribe HRT and advise on the LATEST guidelines.. My doc is great, she quite rightly pointed out that women are living longer, working longer and should expect a good quality of life longer! not just put up with any old nonsense from doctors/health care professionals.. They need to WAKE up
GRR! Tempest I'm right there with you...

But rest assured I shall not listen to any such similar advice

Abby x

[Annie0710]

You know reading these stories is sad, and worrying

I had POV at 32 aster my hysterectomy and started oestrogen hrt

I think ovaries really truly finally packed in, disappeared whatever at 45 , as that's when the real problems started although I assumed I still had them, albeit not very healthy ones

Bloods showed peri started age 45 and post meno at 48

Scan a few months ago showed NO OVARIES ! Sonographer reckons that they disintegrated between 45 and 48 BUT it was the revellatiob of that scan that got me Testosterone prescribed as I have been relying on my adrenals, and as Tenpest suggests, whatever else process to get the hormones

So, if the gynae who prescribed my T and who I've never met, consult was via dr letter, can understand it it's worrying that all your gynaes don't believe in this !

We shouldn't have to fight for something that we once naturally produced, especially not in this day and age

Apologies for typos , my phone is really playing up lately

X

[Tempest]

Stick to your guns, Abby!!!!!! 

Hi, Annie! Yep - it's beyond woeful isn't it?!? I really, really hope that even a fraction of the professionals I have met over the last year who laud this forum actually come here and read what we post. I've actually particularly asked on more than one occasion for a stickied thread for us surgical menopause and complete ovarian failure ladies - I'm seeing more and more of this and the 'treatment' we're (not) getting too!

I would like to think that at least Dr. Currie is aware of the plight of ladies in our position from our posts here, and I'd also hope very much that she is taking this away to the BMS to raise awareness that we are getting very poor treatment indeed and are suffering needlessly and terribly, often having to go to great lengths to receive any treatment at all. Every one of us in this position has had a tough time without exception and that is simply not damn good enough!!! I do not think for one moment if a man was surgically castrated or suffered complete testosterone insufficiency that he would have to fight to receive treatment, and be told 'oh, you're getting on a bit now. Middle age and all that. Probably just go home and see how you get on without taking anything'.

I'm telling you - there would be an UPROAR!!!! 

[babyjane]

Things must have changed since I had my hysterectomy in 1995.  I remember a lady on the ward I was in who had her ovaries removed as well.  She was given her HRT patches on day 2 and was not discharged for several days after starting them.

My friend and neighbour had a hyster in 2000 and she was given HRT in pill form, Elleste Solo I think she said it was, straight afterwards.

Why are women no longer automatically given this replacement after a hysterectomy nowadays?

[abbyH]

It is terrible.. I was more or less discharged after a few hours and NOT folllowed up on with HRT advice or anything.. I'm a stone overweight, depressed and have lost most of my hair

I sometimes feel life is not worth living.. I wish I could post a before and after pic, it's really not fair

[babyjane]

when the thyroid packs up replacement is given with no question.  It has to be otherwise you can become very ill and even die.  the fact that prescriptions are free for hypothyroid patients shows how important it is.

Therefore it is not rocket science to realise that the female body needs all its hormones including oestrogen.

Obviously in a normal menopause the levels drop slowly and not everyone needs to use HRT (I didn't) but when the supply is just suddenly cut off it is a different matter surely?

I am shocked by this.