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[flufferama]

Hello. I've a question about hormones (who doesn't  )

This one is just about physical issues.

For the past 7 years or so, I used to get a piercing headache the day or so before my period started. Once it started the headache would go, I'd feel huge relief. This was along with my usual PMT symptoms, crushing fatigue for a couple of days and pains down my thighs. All the while I wasn't using any hormonal contraception.

Now I get that piercing headache behind one or both eyes, I think it could be classed as a migraine maybe, during my period.
This is while I'm using a 50mcg oestrogen patch.

Is that caused by progesterone withdrawal, or even low prog? It was very low in successive day 21 bloods.

I'm trying to piece together a picture and plan for when I see the gynae next.

I'd thought my symptoms were down to falling oestrogen but now I'm wondering if the fall in prog is also causing these issues. Of which I have too many at the moment!

[flufferama]

It's awful isn't it, sparkle? Feels like someone's sticking a metal knitting needle into my head.
I've had the fizzing too, among a smorgasbord of horrible things going on.

I hope your headache subsides, I've taken a 600mg ibuprofen tablet which does help somewhat.

Really curious as to whether the drop in prog can cause this and why it's happening during my period now as well as opposed to just before it starts.

I feel like I'm completely crocked!

[samweller161]

Wow, so fortuitous to read this - I have been getting the stabbing pains behind my left eye (also affecting my left gum bizarrely) about 5 days before period is due - ordinary painkillers don't seem to shift it and I assumed I needed my eyes retesting/dentist!  The last time I took a couple of co-dydramol I had left over when I had a mini back operation in January and it went within an hour.  No fizzing though.  I take HRT (Elleste Duet 1mg).  Keep us updated on what you find out re drop in prog? 

[Hurdity]

Hi flufferama - someone else started a thread called "progesterone withdrawal" or similar so just have a look at the recent threads. Pre-menstrual headaches and migraines are thought to be caused by the sudden drop in progesterone before a period - but also low oestrogen may be a component of pms symptoms in some women (low mood etc). The high progesterone we experience during the second half of the menstrual cycle (well it rises rapidly after ovulation reaches a peak and then falls - which triggers the bleed) - causes physiological changes in our body to prepare for pregnancy which are then reversed if fertilisation does not occur and progesterone falls.

Low progesterone is not an issue in itself - it should be low after ovulation and at menopause - it is only high to prepare for pregnancy, so low prog as such will not cause headaches - it is just a temporary effect of the changes.

During peri-menopause the control mechanisms go a bit awry so hormones fluctuate up and down a bit more dramatically - if bleeding starts before progesterone has completely reduced to the low level it should be at, then the symptoms may well continue after the bleed starts. Some women find the headaches and pms last a few days into the period anyway.

I got the same when I was first using HRT (prog withdrawal migraine) - then I was using a different type of progesterone in higher doses (Cyclogest) but don't seem to get them now I use utrogestan and especially as I use it vaginally. I do get them (migraines)  randomly at other times though - various triggers! What progestogen do you use flufferama and what dose? Also are you post-meno or still peri?

Hurdity x

[flufferama]

Thanks Hurdity! That's very informative.

I'm peri, regular periods and only using oestrogen patches for 7-10 days premenstrually. I was prescribed this for severe PMT (very low and anxious) two years ago. It worked amazingly well up until recently as things have shifted on a bit from 7-10 days of hell.

That's being worked on at the moment (I hope, some tinkering is needed) but I was wondering about the cause of the headache and it sure seems to be something related to progesterone alright.

My hormones are fluctuating wildly, or at least I'm reacting badly to whatever they're doing at the moment, so trying to pin that tail on the donkey is tough at this stage.

[dangermouse]

I do wonder if the progesterone in HRT is too strong. I tried the Provera and I get what you mean about the sedative effects as I felt like someone had knocked me out cold! I never had this problem with the pill and noticed that Micronor, the mini pill, has only 0.35mg of Norethisterone in it but the HRT preps have 1mg.

It's a shame that they don't have a lower strength Utrogestan that you can take every day (or you could take the mini-pill but I suspect GPs would have licensing issues) as it does seem to be that, like how too high oestrogen causes anxiety and over-stimulation, too high progesterone causes depression and sedation. Both hormones make you feel good when they're balanced and having little and often would likely stop these dramatic rise and falls.

[Dawncam]

Hi dangermouse - I read this post after searching on micronor for prog. In s desperate attempt to find a prog that worked,  I found a lady on here who said she used sandrena and micronor very successfully 3 x a week.  I thought I'd give it a whirl as I had an old pack of M in the drawer.  I know I'm breaking all sorts of rules but a week down the line, I'm feeling the best I've felt in a year. Stopped T as hair was thinning and now using 3 pumps oestrogel and micronor daily. Felt a bit crampy first couple of days, but great now.  Going to ask GP if I can trial it a bit longer and maybe have a scan to see if it's working. It's reducing water retention, completely sorted my sinus probs and easing joints.  Also seems to have stabilised mood somewhat. Still early days but ever hopeful.

Dx

[dangermouse]

Oh that's good to hear! I don't fully understand why a high dose of progesterone is taken for part of the month and not a low dose continuously as surely the monthly total would then be the same for thinning the lining? The side effects would then be much milder for those who react to progesterone badly, particularly without all that stopping and starting.

[Hurdity]

Hi Dawncam

Micronor contains norethisterone which is one of the more potent progestogens for keeping the womb lining thin.  However the dose is lower than for HRT as dangermouse pointed out, so may not be sufficient for this purpose. The dose is worked out as being the amount necessary through clinical trials although granted it is deigned for most women so some may well need less for the same amount of oestrogen.

Nevertheless I would be cautious in only using this amount for 3 pumps of oestrogen. My gyane GP gave me norethisterone for "stripping" the womb lining once a year (12 days instead of my usual utrogestan) as I am on a long cycle - and these were 5 mg tablets!

The woman who is using the regime you mention is skkb and she is only on a very low dose of gel ( 0.5 mg Sandrena - about 2/3 pump of oestrogel 3 x per week as well. If you are being monitored then I am sure it would be OK to have a go for a few weeks....

Dangermouse the monthly total may be the same but if you are peri-menopausal the bleeding can then be very unpredictable and sporadic as the hormones from the menstrual cycle break through.

Hurdity x

[dangermouse]

Oh thanks, I figured there must have been a good reason!

[Dawncam]

Thanks Hurdity -  I know it's a long shot but if it requires me to have regular scans then I'm happy to pay for them as nhs a bit tardy so far on that. I'd always suspected that I'm better on 'some' prog as first/second  day of U I always felt really good - sinus, joints, mood, water retention etc, but as it built up, oh dear......

Anyway, id never had probs with micronor in the past so thought I'd give it a whirl. I know it used to be used as hrt prog but was stopped in 2007, prob because not high enough prog for some women, but maybe ok for others on Conti? I'd like to continue for at least a month as I can't believe how much better I feel and I'd rather have this protocol than a Mirena/Jaydess. We'll see...

Dxx

[Dawncam]

Flufferama - apologies, I've hijacked your post somewhat, got a bit carried away! I hope you find a solution to your prob.

Dxx

[Dancinggirl]

I always go this headache just before a bleed whether on BCP or HRT.
During my fertile years, if I wasn't on BPCs I had horrendous period pain for a few hours - we're talking rolling around on the floor with the cramps and throwing up. I preferred the headache that only lasted 2-3 hours and a couple of aspirin sorted.
Now I'm off systemic HRT I get lots of headaches lasting 1-3 days - can't find a reason or a trigger except lack of sleep.  DG x