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[Tempest]

Bear with me on this one, ladies! I'd like to hear your thoughts.

Last time I tried transdermal estradiol gel, I received Estrogel as my prescription. I liked the capped pump dispenser, and the dose always appeared to be uniform (I stopped it because I was asked to by my Cardiologist after having chest pain, as some of you may remember).

Fast forward a couple of months, and I am now again trying transdermal estradiol gel, but this time I have received Oestrodose as my prescription (no pharmacy I went to had Estrogel in stock, but they said this was the same product).

The pump is flimsy, with no cap. I've had niggling thoughts that the amount pumped each time wasn't consistent - tonight, I decided to do a controlled experiment and found that the pump sizes are indeed inconsistent in size, despite depressing the pump accurately and releasing it each time.

This time on Oestrodose, I have developed a nasty rash. I checked the ingredients on the stick on label and pack insert, and both claim identical ingredients to Estrogel. I have 3 pump packs of the Oestrodose, and 2 of them state that they are repackaged in the UK but by different companies, 1 based in Wimbledon and 1 in Doncaster. The other has labeling in French, and says that it is manufactured by Besins in Belgium (the company that makes Estrogel).

The 2 from the UK are runnier and have no smell to speak of. The one from Belgium has a faintly more 'alcohol' smell.

I have used the one produced by Besins tonight which I started this course of HRT with. For the last 2 weeks, I have used the other 2 packs and it's since then that I have developed the rash.

As I previously stated, ALL claim the ingredients are identical, but there is clearly a difference in texture. I'm also finding the irregular pump sizes disconcerting to say the least.

I never had any of these problems with Estrogel.

So - in my opinion there is clearly product inconsistency here. Oestrodose, to me, is NOT the same as Estrogel and seems to be inferior in quality of packaging, pump size consistency and texture - at least those that are repackaged in the UK.

I'm guessing the scenario is that the UK based companies who are 'repackaging' the gel are buying it in in bulk and this is an initiative to keep the cost down rather than buying in the finished product direct from Besins, thus making it a cheaper product to provide on prescription. I'm not sure what is taking place during the repackaging, but the gel consistency is not comparable with the product packaged at source.

If my observations are correct, this is worrying.

If anyone else has noticed anything similar, I'd like to hear your thoughts please. It's either that, or i'm going bonkers (yes......I know, before you say anything)!

Thank you!

[Tinkerbell]

Interesting
Because my last two bottles have been, just looked, Oestrodose and I thought it seemed thinner and dried quicker. Also like you say I sometimes think the dose looks less.....maybe it explains why I have had a slight blip in my nether regions again!
Haven't had any allergic type reaction to it though.

[Keepgoing]

Hi tempest no your not mad. I have just this week asked my chemist to specifically ask for estrogel when they order it as I said to them when they give me the other stuff I need to use more and I know this cause if I go below 3 pumps of estrogel I start to itch all over and this has happened on the other stuff so I have to use 4 pumps. The all over body itch was one of my first peri symptoms and the first thing I notice if my estrogen is low. I hate the eostrodose with a passion as it upsets my nice balance xx

[Keepgoing]

Tempest I would mention this to your consultant as this could very well be the reason for the rash you have got...it really pisses me off when you finally get something that works and the chemists start messing around and giving you cheaper versions as hormones are hard to balance at the best of times 😡😡😡😡 xx

[Keepgoing]

And thank you for putting this on here tempest, I never thought to as I thought it was just me but if in future I will put up here and see xx

[abbyH]

I have Oestrodose.. but says made by Besin's and pump seems ok!?
I did start off with oestrogel - when I first got on HRT.. so seems like they have changed it down the line!

hmmmmmm

[Tinkerbell]

After reading this I am going to asking chemist what they have in stock before putting the script in.

[Tempest]

Thank you so very much for your input ladies - keep it coming, as I'm going to print off this page and take it to show Professor Lumsden on Tuesday (with all of your kind permission of course - I won't do this unless you say it's ok)!

I have just phoned my regular and very knowledgeable independent pharmacist. She spent quite a while on the phone with me, and I explained my situation and that other ladies may be having problems also.

Anyway, she went online to see which products she was able to order, and found that NOTHING was available to order under either Estrogel, Oestrogel, Oestrodose or generically, estradiol gel. She simply can't get transdermal estradiol gel at all at the moment. Now this is weird!

She was able to fill my prescription last time as they happened to have 2 bottles in stock. I'm going to ring around later to see if Boots are able to oblige, what they can actually order in and what they have on the shelves at the moment.

I have a partial pack of Estrogel left from last time, so I have compared this with the Oestrodose and can confirm that the Oestrodose IS runnier. Even Hubby said you can clearly see the difference! When pumped on a tissue side by side the Estrogel is a firm gel consistency, the Oestrodose is less dense and thinner. I also pumped 3 doses of the Estrogel to compare and all 3 pumps look of equal size. Last night when I applied the Oestrodose again, I had to discard the first dose that I pumped as it was definitely smaller than it should have been.

This is no good, ladies - we need consistency with our HRT, for goodness sake! I'm also sure that SOMETHING has changed in the Oestrodose which my skin doesn't like, as I never had this problem with the Estrogel.

I think it's particularly damning Keepgoing in what you are saying that you have had to increase up to 4 pumps to get the same effect, and that this has happened since the change over to Oestrodose. Thank you so much for sharing your observations. Ditto Tinkerbell - thank you!

I'll keep you all posted!

[Tempest]

Thank you for your comments, Stellajane.

My packs also have this sticker, except that 2 of them state that the contents is repackaged in the UK by 2 different distributors. The other pack does not have this sticker, and the information is in French and states that it is manufactured and packaged by Besins in Belgium. Ditto the Estrogel, but this is in an entirely different container - cylindrical with a different pump and a small cap attached to close the pump opening.

I've definitely noted a disparity in pump sizes on the Oestrodose, even when shaking the container and depressing  and releasing the pump fully.

[Annie0710]

I belong to a Myasthenia Gravis group (as the diagnosis for me still kinda hangs but only for double vision) ANYHOW, they talk of a drug Mestinon and very often they get prescribed the generic form and a few say their muscle loss happens faster on the generic

X

[Annie0710]

Hello Annie,

This sort of thing happens all the time here, some generic are really effective but others are well know for being crap (sorry but truth has to be said). I try to stick to those generic made by well known reputable pharmaceutical companies and give them a trial period to see if they work, if not, I prefer to purchase than to get a free useless medicine.

Yea I don't think they're saying they don't work it's just the brand one lasts 4 hrs but I think there's been some generic ones not lasting as long

X

[Tempest]

Thank you so much for your comments, Annie and Menomale (how are you doing, Menomale? I know you've had a lot going on just lately - just been catching up with your posts)!

In the name of research (and sanity - ahem) I have popped over to the Surmeno Forum (I'm a member of them all, me ). The ladies over there are often in hot debate about the gel method of delivery for us Surgical ladies in general, and it has been noted that there is generally an inconsistency in pump doses. This most likely isn't that noticeable for some ladies who are in natural menopause, but for us ovary-less types it's a flippin' rollercoaster.

The general consensus there was that it seems to be the most problematic form of delivery of all for us surgical ladies - especially those who are hormone depleted and trying to build up levels and obtain balance.

I think this just goes to show that we probably DO need a stickied thread for us surgical ladies, as we have slightly different issues to ladies in natural menopause and I'd like to think that we can be a part of this site as it's the only UK based one available (Hystersisters and Surmeno are both US).

For instance, the catastrophic 'hormone crash' is oft spoken of in the US forums and for us it is truly CATASTROPHIC!!! I thought it was just me when it happened, but alas no. Also our tendency to feel absolutely hideous upon dose changes/start up/ fluctuations when our HRT goes awry. As you all probably realise, we surgical ladies have been dropped from a great height when our ovaries were removed and many of us were pre or peri menopause when this happened.

Anyway, I digress. Yes - generics! My Dad had a hideous time on generic medications for his health issues, and I've also had a friend who has had an awful time with generic versions of her anti depressant. With some drugs, you can't even get the same generic twice. 

[Tempest]

Stellajane, I also have had terrible problems with some of the generic brands of Cetirizine! I take mine twice daily by the way - I was originally on FOUR a day at one point whilst under the Anaphylaxis Clinic! I could hardly function, despite the claims that Cetirizine doesn't cross the blood/brain barrier. On some of the generics I got awful breakthrough hives, and one made me feel decidedly weird about half an hour after taking a tablet.

I now always insist on the brand supplied by Bristol Laboratories - I seem to do fine with that. When I spoke to my Anaphylaxis Consultant about my drug allergies and intolerances, she said that it's often that the so called 'inert' ingredients can cause problems. Two that she mentioned are Sodium Lauryl Sulfate (yes, soap) which is used in some drugs as a kind of binder and Povidone, which is a form of iodine which some folk can react particularly badly to if they have an allergy to radioactive contrast mediums or shellfish. It's a minefield out there!

[Tempest]

Menomale, that's such good news that things are moving forward for you in such a positive way! It must be much easier having your dear Father nearby. Caring for loved ones always causes so much anxiety anyway, doesn't it? We don't like to see them suffer in any way. These years of our lives are very challenging I think - our parents are elderly and need our care, and we in turn are coping with our middle years and of course the challenge of menopause!

Sending a  right back to you - and I hope the weather has now cooled down a bit too!

[Keepgoing]

Bumped for ell xx