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[Menomale]

Am I still ovulating? That's the big question. I only had one period in March 2015, one in Dec 2015 and one in Oct 2016. All my hormone blood tests (I know they are unreliable as a diagnostic tool for this BUT I have had three per year which is a good starting point for analysis) show very low levels (some undetected by highly sensitive tests) of all sex hormones, so my gp, gynae and I agreed that HRT was needed. I haven't had any symptoms of ovulation during this whole time (only before the Oct 2016 bleeding, but then I had already started HRT).

Post-menopausal women still produce endogenous oestrogen, progesterone and testosterone from adrenal glands, which is precisely where my problem lies, I'm perimenopausal BUT my adrenals are not coping well with stress, age or whatever other cause, that's probably why my progesterone, oestrogen, testosterone and DHEA levels are so low and cortisol is not showing its normal circadian peak values.

[Menomale]

Hi murphydurf,

I'll keep posting, hopefully!

My last gynae (I had to change recently) was adamant I should have a Mirena because of my fibroids and polyps but I don't feel comfortable with the idea  (not sure why). She also wanted to remove my polyps immediately under general anaesthesia but I have some cardiovascular issues and had to be referred to a cardiologist before. Oh the joys of being an old woman...

Why are you regretting staying on Mirena? If you have already talked about this on another thread, would you care to post the link?

[murphydurf]

Hi Menomale - I have been so up and down with the mirena - it almost completely ruined Christmas and New Year for me - I refused all offers of parties and fun and sat alone on New Years Eve as I was so low. I've had dreadful palps and anxiety which I've never had before (been on HRT approx 5 years), I've had to increase E to try and deal with fatigue and low mood. I can't remember anything, have very little interest in anything and absolutely no zest for life. I keep being told it will pass but whilst out for Sunday lunch with my partner last week even he commented that I've changed (I called off going out the previous night as I'd ended up in tears for no reason). I asked my doc to remove it but she managed to talk me into keeping it for another month to see if it settles. I didn't have bleeding probs and don't need contraception so I'm not sure it's the best option as I've had bleeding and cramping almost non-stop since having it fitted and am now reducing E to see if that helps. I don't like U but wonder if I can tolerate it more alt day than the mirena.

Mx

[Menomale]

I'm sorry you're feeling so bad, murphydurf! Same with me here regarding social contact, but no bleeds nor cramps... I hope your doc is right and that settles. I think that changing HRTs is not easy for our bodies/mind to adjust and probably is not a good idea anyway, maybe a necessary evil until we find energy to persevere in one type and reach nirvana! Is that even possible?

 

[murphydurf]

I hope you're right Menomale but there's a nagging voice in my head saying this device isn't good for me. I'm really at the point of packing it all in as I've really had enough.

Mx

[Menomale]

If there is one thing I have learned from past experiences is that you have to listen to your instincts!!!! I am a heavy thinker, but as many other people with Asperger's I'm lacking some neurons that control specific areas (social mainly) but I have somehow surpassed that disability by listening to my instintics, the animal in me is soooooo nice compared to some humans!

[murphydurf]

Completely agree Menomale. We need to listen to that voice, and particularly at a stage in our lives when we have enough experience to know what's good for us.

Mx

[Hurdity]

Hi Menomale - I have been so up and down with the mirena - it almost completely ruined Christmas and New Year for me - I refused all offers of parties and fun and sat alone on New Years Eve as I was so low. I've had dreadful palps and anxiety which I've never had before (been on HRT approx 5 years), I've had to increase E to try and deal with fatigue and low mood. I can't remember anything, have very little interest in anything and absolutely no zest for life. I keep being told it will pass but whilst out for Sunday lunch with my partner last week even he commented that I've changed (I called off going out the previous night as I'd ended up in tears for no reason). I asked my doc to remove it but she managed to talk me into keeping it for another month to see if it settles. I didn't have bleeding probs and don't need contraception so I'm not sure it's the best option as I've had bleeding and cramping almost non-stop since having it fitted and am now reducing E to see if that helps. I don't like U but wonder if I can tolerate it more alt day than the mirena.

Mx

Sorry to hear you are experiencing side effects. Your doctor is right to suggest you give it another month because systemic levels of the progestogen (levonorgestrel) will be at their highest after 2 weeks and thereafter gradually decline slowly - so you should be able to tell after a couple of months if this is intolerable or not. Also the product info states that the rate at which it is broken down ( the compound in your bloodstream) varies hugely between individuals so perhaps those that experience worse side effects are also those for whom the progestogen hangs around for longer and stabilises at higher levels maybe?

Was it you that was talking about the new Jaydess? I can't see why this is not used for women in postmenopause who are taking low doses of oestrogen - because the very high dose of Mirena is supposed to deal with heavy bleeding caused by too much oestrogen - and the oestrogen usually given post-menopausally is much lower and this degree of protection is not needed. Maybe trials are needed....

Do keep us updated as to how you get on
Hurdity x

[murphydurf]

Hurdity - yes it was me who wanted the Jaydess but, as suspected, when I asked for it at meno clinic they refused as its not licensed for hrt. I've had the Mirena for 7 weeks and it's fairly obvious to me that it's not the best option for my needs. I've never had problems with bleeding even when fertile and just feel that it's a sledgehammer to crack a nut. It's now starting to really impact on my quality of life.

[Peacegirl]

I'm trying utrogestan on alternate days. 100 mg continuous and 2 pumps of oestrogel. I was having quite debilitating progesterone side-effects on daily dosing and am still having them but it's easing a little. I can't see my specialist until June due to lack of appointments so I'll ask then about scan to measure womb lining. If not allowed I'll go private. I really can't see how such blanket dosing of utrogestan can be good. I.e 2 pumps of estrogen gel= take 100mg of utrogestan and 4 pumps of gel= take the same! I am self-experimenting and I'm not suggesting anyone else do this but considering I was suicidal and/or ill for two years, this is preferable 😊

[matildamouse]

Peacegirl, do you take the progesterone via oral or vaginal route? I agree the regime should be more individuslised.

I am on 50mcg Estradot patch, twice weekly vagifem and alternate days of progesterone vaginally. My last scan showed a 3mm lining.

Please keep us updated with your progress and scan results. All the best!

[Peacegirl]

The various studies which Hurdity provided a link to refer to the use of Utrogestan vaginally.  If you're going to try out the every other day regime and are on anything more than a very low dose of oestrogen you may need to be careful about using it orally.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong but its always been my understanding that using the capsules vaginally results in more progesterone being absorbed than when you swallow them - hence you should be able to get away with using less. 

I don't think we can assume that if we're going to be using it only every other day we can just choose whichever route we'd prefer.

Thank you for the info, I only just found out (from here not from a doctor) that I can use it vaginally and have started to do so. I'm only using 1and a half to 2 pumps of estrogel a day. I'm having all the symptoms I usually have of too much progesterone. But, as I said, I will get a scan as soon as poss to check that all is well 🙂

[Peacegirl]

Peacegirl, do you take the progesterone via oral or vaginal route? I agree the regime should be more individuslised.

I am on 50mcg Estradot patch, twice weekly vagifem and alternate days of progesterone vaginally. My last scan showed a 3mm lining.

Please keep us updated with your progress and scan results. All the best!

Vaginally now. I will update of progress and scan. Currently I'm feeling better than I have for ages (apart from the initial progesterone side effects; feeling over-sedated, viral and having VERY sore boobs). it's only been 3 weeks but I hope I'm finally on the up after two years of hell!

[matildamouse]

Peacegirl, , I also get the sore and engorged breasts on oral progesterone, as well as IBS symptoms. Will be interesting to see if your breasts also settle down on the vaginal route. I do not get the oversedation, just very vivid dreams. Please let us know :-)

[MicheleMaBelle]

Hi ladies- a bit late to this thread. I e mailed my consultant last week as a month into my 2 pumps of oestrogel and 100mg of daily utrogestan, I was feeling pretty ropey and it's got a lot worse since I switched from sequential to cyclical therapy. So, I reckon like a lot of you, I'm struggling with the progesterone.

I see him again in June but in the meantime he's suggested that I can either switch to sequential therapy at standard 200 mg dose OR try 100 mg alternative days. I'm going for the second option and see how I get on but today I woke up with very sore joints so don't know if I should be upping the oestrogen dose- any idea? It scares me to increase it when I'm taking a smaller dose of Utrogestan. I'm only two days into the alternative day regime. Why is this so bloody difficult?