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[saffy123]

Hi, I am peri 42 and been using estrogel for a couple of years (had a few breaks to experiment with BCP, but the continuous progesterone didn't suit).

Anyway I am finding the estrogel is no longer working...maybe not being absorbed sufficiently??? I had a few problems a while ago, so applied to different skin areas which seemed to help, but not any more. May be every skin area has become too saturated??

I am currently using 3 pumps of estrogel and am having symptoms that I had prior to HRT (thankfully not the anxiety yet) but month long PMT, very dry eyes, aching hips etc. I am not taking any progesterone, but my yet my periods have gone back to 28ish.

I am so confused, I am using the gel correctly, always leaving it dry at least 10mins. Where do I go from here...will patches work any better?? if so which one??

Any thoughts pleaseeeee, so scared the anxiety will rear its ugly head again soon. thanks xx 

[Smokey]

Hi Saffy

I guess you could increase to 4 pumps I think that's the maximum, it may be that you just need more oestrogel! If I doesn't work then maybe your right and are not obsorbing is properly and may have to look at alternatives.

Ann x

[Joyce]

I had to switch to patches a few years back as oestrogel wasn't as effective as it had been. No complaints on patches.

[saffy123]

Thank you smokey for your reply, I have thought about increasing to 4 pumps but I really don't think it's working, infact for the last 4 days I have just been on one pump to see if I noticed any dip in symptoms...no change at all, no worse. Totally baffled 

Thanks cubagirl....can I ask what patches you are using....I have a doctors appointment on Monday, so I could ask for a change of prescription. Desperate to find something that works.

xx

[Tinkerbell]

I don't think my patches are working so was going to ask for Oestrogel 
My patches are Estradot, they stick fairly well on me and are smaller than others apparently. But there does seem to be frequent supply problems which is a right pain!

[saffy123]

I don't think my patches are working so was going to ask for Oestrogel 
My patches are Estradot, they stick fairly well on me and are smaller than others apparently. But there does seem to be frequent supply problems which is a right pain!

Oh goodness Tinkerbell, was so hoping the patches would be the answer. The estrogel worked so well to start with but defo no effect now, feel like i'm back to square one. May be we have the wrong type of skin, if that's possible  . I just have no idea what the answer is.
Don't really like the thought of taking tablets as I know they will cause stomach issues which I could do with out. Big sigh xx

[Tinkerbell]

And I was hoping Oestrogel would be my answer
I don't think I will be able to take tablets as I am on BP medication and because of that they prefer you to be on transdermal methods.
Bigger sigh! 

[saffy123]

And I was hoping Oestrogel would be my answer
I don't think I will be able to take tablets as I am on BP medication and because of that they prefer you to be on transdermal methods.
Bigger sigh! 

Hi Tinkerbell maybe you should try the estrogel and I will give the patches ago, I kinda feel that at least we would be doing something.
I will email my menopause specialist and see if she has any answers to why we are not getting the expected results on transdermal....she is a bit hard to pin down, but I can't afford a private appointment at the mo....3 kiddies and the summer hols! Will keep you posted. xx

[Dancinggirl]

saffy123 - I have used Oestrogel over the last 20 years and it has always been very effective. Have you had blood tests done to see what your oestrogen level is on 3 pumps per day? Why do you think the gel isn't working? What symptoms are you trying to control? I do wonder if you have something else going on - maybe thyroid issues?  If you have flushes etc. then this can be down to progesterone ( Utrogestan gave me flushes) or even too high a dose of oestrogen. DG x

[Hurdity]

Hi saffy123

First of all I am puzzled as to why you are not using progesterone? On such a high dose of gel I would have thought you should take some as you are presumably not taking enough to suppress ovulation, but your own progesterone may not be able to cope with your own oestrogen as well as the extra?

Also re the estrogel - what size area of skin are you applying it to? If it is too large then it is not absorbed so well - but it has to be a very large area for this to happen - eg as large an area as you could possibly spread it on such as all the way down your leg and thigh (I got this info from the product monograph on Estrogel - or a related paper).

The estrogel is absorbed through the skin and into the blood stream continuously so as I understand it, the skin can't get saturated such that absorption is prevented.

Women do vary hugely in the amount of oestrogen they absorb from different types of HRT especially transdermal. One paper I read said that there was a study which showed a 10 fold difference in oestrogen levels among different women given the same oestrogen dose!  You may well be better off with a patch or a change in dose - but I would follow Dancinggirl's advice first.

I use Estradot patches and have always found them excellent - but then I only started when I was almost 54 and late peri-menopause. At your young age you need to have a decent dose of oestrogen - although if your periods are now regular maybe something else is going on?

Hurdity x

[saffy123]

saffy123 - I have used Oestrogel over the last 20 years and it has always been very effective. Have you had blood tests done to see what your oestrogen level is on 3 pumps per day? Why do you think the gel isn't working? What symptoms are you trying to control? I do wonder if you have something else going on - maybe thyroid issues?  If you have flushes etc. then this can be down to progesterone ( Utrogestan gave me flushes) or even too high a dose of oestrogen. DG x

Thank you Dancinggirl. Yes I will defo get bloods done to check levels, my GP is pretty useless at all things menopause, but I will insist that I need to know what is going on. My main symptoms are continual PMT (always have painful breasts and feel like a period is pending),aches, bladder issues and very dry eyes. Now using Estring so I hoping that helps with bladder. No hot flushes ..yet.
Had a thyroid test done that's all fine. Did have a quick look on hystersisters site and others have commented that estrogel stopped working for them, so maybe it doesn't suit all....such a shame as I was feeling better on it. Will try the patch to see if that's any better xx

[saffy123]

Hi saffy123

First of all I am puzzled as to why you are not using progesterone? On such a high dose of gel I would have thought you should take some as you are presumably not taking enough to suppress ovulation, but your own progesterone may not be able to cope with your own oestrogen as well as the extra?

Also re the estrogel - what size area of skin are you applying it to? If it is too large then it is not absorbed so well - but it has to be a very large area for this to happen - eg as large an area as you could possibly spread it on such as all the way down your leg and thigh (I got this info from the product monograph on Estrogel - or a related paper).

The estrogel is absorbed through the skin and into the blood stream continuously so as I understand it, the skin can't get saturated such that absorption is prevented.

Women do vary hugely in the amount of oestrogen they absorb from different types of HRT especially transdermal. One paper I read said that there was a study which showed a 10 fold difference in oestrogen levels among different women given the same oestrogen dose!  You may well be better off with a patch or a change in dose - but I would follow Dancinggirl's advice first.

I use Estradot patches and have always found them excellent - but then I only started when I was almost 54 and late peri-menopause. At your young age you need to have a decent dose of oestrogen - although if your periods are now regular maybe something else is going on?

Hurdity x

Thank you Hurdity. I guess I'm using it correctly as it was working before. Changing skin sites helped as I could feel a boost the first time I used a site which had never been used before, it really does seem that the skin no longer absorbs it which I know sounds crazy  I will get a blood test done and see if they will let me try the patches. My plan was to use the progesterone every other month, but as my cycles have gone back to pre hrt days my own progesterone seems to be working too well on its own. May be thats the problem my own progestesterone has increased to accomodate the extra estrogen....would that be possible  xx

[Tempest]

What Hurdity said about spreading the gel.

I actually messaged Dr Annie Evans via Facebook about this when I was attempting to use Estrogel, and she said an area of about 2 hands per pump. She also suggested upper arms/shoulders as application area, and said this is usually what she advises as opposed to thighs. Have you given all this a go? I'm going to (hopefully) try patches next. I guess it's trial and error to see what suits us best, isn't it? If only it were more easy......

[Dancinggirl]

saffy123 - If you are getting regular bleeds this would indicate to me that you are producing good hormones yourself and in fact you might be over dosing on oestrogen by adding in the oestrogel.  Alternatively, your womb lining is building up so much it is shedding because it isn't getting a proper 'flush out' following a progesterone phase ( e.g. 12 days of Utrogestan) .  Either way, I'd possibly consider having a complete break from HRT to see what is going on with your cycle and really be able to judge whether you are needing HRT hormones right now.
I have forgotten what meno symptoms you are trying to control? DG x

[saffy123]

What Hurdity said about spreading the gel.

I actually messaged Dr Annie Evans via Facebook about this when I was attempting to use Estrogel, and she said an area of about 2 hands per pump. She also suggested upper arms/shoulders as application area, and said this is usually what she advises as opposed to thighs. Have you given all this a go? I'm going to (hopefully) try patches next. I guess it's trial and error to see what suits us best, isn't it? If only it were more easy......

Thanks Tempest, yes using on arms, shoulders, inner thighs and buttocks. When I used the arms for the first time I could really notice a difference, but now nothing. Using the sort of area suggested. I think I will try the patches, don't feel I have a lot to loose, defo need something as I ache and have bad pmt and was only on period last week....big sigh xx