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[Tempest]

Hi again ladies. I went away for a few days to try to calm down and just buckle down but the last 2 days have been hell!

Before starting the 2 pumps of Estrogel 44 days ago, I had very little anxiety. Now it is UNCONTROLLABLE. I wake up shaking, and am now in the last 2 days getting massive palpitations 3 hours after I apply the gel in the evening. I am literally on the ceiling! Also waking up with the shakes, which I haven't had for over a year since I had my surgery (I had this before in peri menopause).

This HAS to be too much estrogen, right? Shall I cut down to 1 pump tonight? Any advice is greatly appreciated. And sorry to be a pain!

[Keepgoing]

Hi sorry your feeling bad...I would go down to the 1 pump for a while till your body adjusts then try adding in a wee bit more in till you get to 2 pumps...building up slowly might be the answer...good luck xx

[Tempest]

Thank you keepgoing! I feel like I've literally thrown a bomb into the works! I think maybe going in at 2 pumps after having no HRT at all throughout peri and also over 1 year post BSO (I've also had TAH a few years ago) was just too much for my body to handle! I feel wired to the moon. I don't like this feeling at all!

[Mother bean]

Hi Tempest,
Sorry to hear you are not feeling so good! As I understand that you have had a hysterectomy and are on 2 pumps of Oestrogel? I have read somewhere else that ladies who had hysterectomies can benefit from adding progesterone to the equation and wondering whether you could benefit from a 100mg daily Utrogestan which may help with your anxieties. I was peri when I first started HRT so not too sure where I am in my journey (I have just turned 53) but am now using 37.5mg of estrodot and a daily dose of Utrogestan for me I take days 1-25 and then have a three day break to allow for the bleed but for you I guess could take them daily as you wouldn't have a bleed due to your hysterectomy. It's only a thought as my anxiety used to be bad before but I must say most days I feel really good! Massive hugs to you xxx

[Milamam]

Tempest, I also think this reaction might be from too much estrogen. The best way to find out is to go down to 1 pump /day and see whether you will feel better.

Keep posting! Hope you will settle soon.
Milamam

[Tempest]

Thank you Mother bean and Milamam! Yes, tonight I'm definitely cutting it down to 1 to see what happens. Horribly bloated too. Boobs are fuller but don't hurt, but definitely puffy in the face, feet and hands to a degree that i don't feel comfortable. It all reminds me so much of my peri days, and they were the worst! As I've said before, my anxiety went way down after I had my BSO, but was replaced after about 6 months with increasingly low mood, low energy and horrendous joint pains. If only I could find a happy medium! I guess that's why we're all here though, isn't it?

Hubby is at work today but we texted on his lunch, and he says that he has really noticed my anxiety has gone up, more so in the last few days. I thought I was doing a good job of keeping it to myself, but he's a good man and I think he notices things more than I realise!

[CLKD]

How were you on 1 pump and who suggested 2  .  If it ain't broke don't fix it  .

24 hours without and then back to 1 pump? 

[CLKD]

Does one need progesterone following hysterectomy 

I suggest doing a 'search' on this Forum for the product ! there are probably ladies with knowledge about the wheres/whyfores.

[Trufflecat]

One pump only tonight has to be worth a go. Good luck X

[Tempest]

Thank you CLKD and Trufflecat!

CLKD, it was the Consultant at the menopause clinic. She says I NEED to be on a 'substantial dose' as I can't possibly have sufficient estrogen due to going a year without anything following by BSO! My levels have never actually been checked. All I blinkin' know right now is that I never had this anxiety before! I'm going to cut it down to 1 tonight. Do you think I should miss a night, actually? I kinda feel that I want to just go down to the 1 pump without a break.

You see, I never actually had too many hot flushes in the first place! That wasn't my problem and why I wanted to try HRT. It was mainly the excruciating joint pains (which have improved on the Estrogel), and the low mood. I had a lift in my mood at first, but now it's gone out the other side and morphed into this incredible anxiety! Jitters, palpitations, feelings of going nuts, yes - it feels like peri is back again! And I'm LOVING the rapid weight gain! Not!!! I actually lost a decent amount of weight after my surgery, but now feel like a custard filled balloon (excuse the weird description, but that's what it feels like. I feel like a half set blancmange)!😭

[CLKD]

Sorry - what's BSO?

You may need oestrogen but go with how you feel, not what she thinks you ought to have  .  Go on symptoms?

[Tempest]

Sorry, CKLD. BSO is bilateral salpingo oopherectomy. I have no ovaries, so all of the estrogen that I produce naturally comes pretty much from my adrenal glands. Tis not a happy situation!

I have hopped over to Hystersisters too and quite a few ladies there are coping ok on just 1 pump plus vaginal estrogen for their needs down below. I also note that in the US, the standard dose is lower at 1 pump, rather than the 2 we have as recommended as standard in the UK. Interesting!

[Hurdity]

Hi Tempest - sorry to hear how you are feeling. I have never taken too high a dose of oestrogen so I've no idea what this feels like. It must be something to do with adding it exogenously ( ie from outside) rather than producing it yourself (endogenous) because during the menstrual cycle at ovulation levels are very high and likely to be much higher than from two pumps of gel - but of course naturally there are a whole lot of other hormones also churning about (not progesterone though at ovulation!).

Intuitively as you say and your specialist tells you that you would need a high dose because you've had BSO but perhaps in your case it might be instructive to have a couple of blood tests. In any case you have to go by how you feel.  The other thing is to make sure your levels are high enough to help prevent osteoporosis - and I've lost track of how old you are (mid 40's?) - so a higher dose should be beneficial.

Maybe a patch would suit you better if you are getting a daily hit of oestrogen that is affecting you?

I am puzzled about the palpitations as I know that these are a sign of oestrogen deficiency - but maybe it's sometimes a heart stimulant too - although I don't remember reading this in the side effects. Does anyone have any information on this?

This is probably not much help as I'm just thinking aloud - sorry!

Hurdity x

[chattygal]

One pump works fine for me. I suffered from anxiety when on a higher dose of oestrogen and took it upon myself to try a lower one. I didn't feel amazing when I started with one but after a couple of weeks it was fine. It's a bit of trial and error to be honest but with the gel you can at least try different levels of the same product. After all we are just trying to get through the day feeling human

[Tempest]

Thank you again, Hurdity! I'm wondering if my problems could be because the the estrogen I'm adding in is unapposed as I am not adding progesterone? I know in theory it's not needed as I have had a hysterectomy also, but I've been doing my research a bit and it seems that it can lead to a situation of symptoms of estrogen dominance in ladies like me who have had TAH/BSO.

I did my one pump a couple of hours ago now and so far not getting that awful 'ramping up' feeling at the moment (fingers crossed)! The palpitations were hitting after about 3 hours, so we will see if that stays away. I do hope so! I'm off seeing my GP on Wednesday and he seems like a nice helpful chap who is new as a partner at the practice so I'll ask him to actually check my levels! I really feel it should have been done by now. Hubby is helpfully coming with me as he is off on Wednesday's from work, so he can support me as I feel a bit overwhelmed right now to be honest!

I'm actually 47, btw. I really do fear osteo. and want to try to do the best I can to protect my bones. One of the reasons I wanted HRT is because my energy levels had become so incredibly low along with the joint pain that I couldn't even take my daily brisk walking exercise anymore.

I'm also seeing the Consultant who did my surgery again in 4 weeks. I think he's going to go potty that I'm on HRT at all as he didn't want me on it. I got a copy of the letter yesterday from the Consultant at the menopause clinic that she sent to him, and she basically went at him big guns for not starting me on ERT post surgery, so I'm sure I'm in for a bit of a frosty reception! I don't really care though now as I have to live like this and surely deserve some quality of life!

I sent my email to Professor Studd btw at the end of last week and have yet to receive a reply after my request for a telephone consultation. I'm not holding my breath on that one!

I also read with great interest your reply to chattygal's question about patch vs. gel and dosage levels, and I'm thinking maybe I am one of the ladies who gets a LOT from the gel!

Chattygal - I'm very encouraged that you do well on 1 pump of Estrogel. I also, if my memory serves me right, think Dancinggirl does fine on either 1 or 1 and a half pumps? As you say, it's all about what gets us through the day!