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[Machair]

Hello and lovely to have an update!

Well I am as confused as you are. I have not ovulated- I know that as I chart over on the Ovusoft community(which is brilliant by the way) and have had no sustained temperature rise since September last year or earlier(when I started temperature charting). What I do have though is endless days of high oestrogen surges with copious mucus, but there are days with nothing as well. I have bouts of PMT like symptoms, but no real bleeds, other than very occasional pink tinges or very light brown spotting for a few days, but these episodes are getting less frequent. I did have really bad PMT last month, but it disappeared overnight one day, and then the fertile looking mucus began again. So much so it stains underwear yellow- do you get this?- it reminds me of being 20 something- weird!

When I do have any kind of bleed it is so short lived, but never develops into the heavy periods of old, or even the 7 day length either. No night sweats or flushes really although I do get hot but really just endless cycles going nowhere. I hope it stops soon as I will be 56 1/2 in September. I still feel very hormonal and certainly not how I would expect to feel if I was post menopausal.

Have your high oestrogen signs completely gone? Maybe you are finally heading towards a calm sea out of choppy waters.

[Elizabethrose]

Hi Machair,

Not having an oestrogen high at the moment, last one dived four weeks ago which triggered the anovulatory bleed. In Jan, Feb I had no surges, migs were terrible despite being on an oestrogen low. The sweats and flushes started beginning of March and then the oestrogen surged again mid April and the flushes stopped. Everything has roller coastered since then. I have no idea what's going on to be honest but I do know that I'm not ovulating. This body is doing a hormonal fandango!

I suspect that my body is trying to maintain a cycle of sorts, I think I've said that before. Period would be due about now, woke with mig, diarrhoea and nausea this morning, usual signs of a period coming. I don't think it will because I don't see how it can to be honest. Maybe the FSH has been unable to pummel any action from the follicles thus far, now that would be a good sign!! But as we both know, everything can change again tomorrow.

I just had an Ocado drop and unpacking it has aggravated the mig so it really will have to be a sitting quietly day because if I push it, it will build. Such a bore!

I had to chart my temps years ago when I was being closely monitored but as my body always showed other signs of ovulation and hormonal changes I stopped doing it. For me it was a bit belt and braces really. When do you think your last ovulatory period was?

[Machair]

I am not sure when my last ovulatory period was as I only charted last September with the temperature, but I think it was earlier that year. I have had bleeds since then, so presume these were not related to ovulation but to oestrogen build up. I am also having the symptoms you mention, and the period type feelings with the bowel changes as you describe from time to time. it is a roller coaster ride for sure. When you had your high oestrogen times did you have this never ending yellow mucus that stained underwear and breast swelling at the same time?

[Elizabethrose]

Oh yes! High oestrogen surges bring copious cervical mucus (stretchy like elastic) with absolutely no other discharge now at other times. These oestrogen highs can go on and on, sometimes for 6 weeks and the cervical mucus and swollen, often very painful, breasts are always a constant with it. Interestingly the breast pain was reduced with the last surge but the bloating was horrific. There are lots of seemingly very small changes happening at the moment which must be a measure that I'm getting closer. My bits are begrudgingly wearing out!!

This measure of meno as occurring a year after the last period is curious isn't it? Our bodies do appear to be extraordinarily reactive to hormone change whilst many women are unaware of the changes happening. I know I haven't ovulated since Nov, you for longer and I don't know about Sparkle BUT we are still not classified as meno until a year has passed after the last bleed. Of course, the pesky oestrogen surges just keep happening which trigger anovulatory bleeds. Maybe these women who pass 60 without passing meno have also had years of anovulatory bleeds too.

[Machair]

How do you determine if you have ovulated or not- for example in November what confirmed that ovulation in your mind? It is really interesting what you say about the anovulatory bleeds- I think many of us have them even after our last ever true ovulation which is why they are often shorter or lighter or even irregular in nature.

[dahliagirl]

Hi - I have been reading this thread with interest, as I charted for about 18 months and had loads of periods before I started taking HRT.

When you are charting, there should be a rise in temperature following ovulation which should last for the next week or so then fall before your period starts about 14 days later.

In the 18 months I kept a record, there was no definite ovulation and the bleeds just seemed to come randomly.  There was usually one 2 weeks after mucus, but that went haywire too, after the first few months.

I found temperature taking problematic - the idea was to do it straight after waking when the alarm went off, so that you get a good idea of the 'basal' temperature.  However, if you have been awake since 3am, that doesn't work because your body temp has risen.  Also, being awake all night then crashing out at 6am messed it up.  Then there was the night sweat thing

The last cycle was 26 days and had a temperature rise that was sustained but gradually flagged downwards - maybe my only ovulatory (of sorts) cycle?

[Elizabethrose]

Machair, our bodies seem to paint a very clear picture!

If I ovulate I get a twinging pain in one or the other ovary accompanied by a very slight show (blink and you'd miss it!). I always have since the age of about 14-15. The cervical mucus used to undergo changes throughout the cycle. Before peri I could see distinct changes in mucus as the cycle progressed, leading up to the fertile clear, slippery and stretchy cervical mucus which used to be present just before ovulation and would last 2-3 days. Now I have no mucus aside from the slippery fertile egg white type cervical mucus when on an oestrogen high.

With anovulatory cycles I don't get the ovary twinges, or show, and the cervical mucus stops after a couple of days but then starts again and carries on into a bleed (if I'm going to get one). One sure sign for me confirming it was anovulatory is that the slippery cervical mucus is present with the bleed. (Sorry for too much information, but it's like a slippery berry jam). My breasts also start to swell and become very painful. I also start bloating. As I said, these pesky oestrogen highs can go on for up to 6 weeks and my body gets to the point where I feel I'm going to explode. Not good for my bladder when a bleed finally comes and the water retention reverses!

Actually I've just checked my records and the last ovulatory cycle I had was in OCTOBER not November. I had a 'normal' ovulation experience and then 15 days later a period. After that all went haywire and I had 6 weeks of steamingly high oestrogen with all it's accompanied symptoms, which continued through an anovulatory bleed up until a major crash mid Dec. I then had another anovulatory bleed two days later.

[Machair]

Sparkle you may be on the home straight? When did you last long stretch of mucus end was it before your last period? Maybe this is going to be it for you and you will soon be feeling better all the time. Have you had any spotting or period attempts?

Dahliagirl you are so right about the temperatures. I am not entirely trusting of them as I have the disease ME and my temperature falls in crashes so is unpredictable. I had a few times with temps up for 3 days but then they crashed. The chart said ovulation but then removed it, so I never knew what went on. It gives some clarity but is not entirely foolproof for everyone.

Elizabethrose that is so helpful thank you so much. I am exactly the same no mucus except in oestrogen surges.

[Elizabethrose]

Haha, and so the plot thickens!

Dahliagirl, I too found the daily temperature readings a pesky nuisance especially as I was also having to pee on a stick for the fertility monitor. All whilst half asleep! Given that the obvious symptoms confirmed what the monitor was telling us they suggested I stop the temperature readings. I eventually stopped the fertility monitor as my cycle was leaping around and the monitor was eventually totally unable to function properly.

Sparkle, yours is good news (don't worry, that is a muted hoorah as I don't want to tempt fate for you!). If things start to calm when in a plateau it's a brilliant sign that all will calm when you finally get through. That's how I read the changes with the migraine. Anne MacGregor told me it would get a lot worse before it got better, boy was she right!!! I've been to places I couldn't have imagined so I feel as if I'm on holiday now!

Keep going girls! 

[dahliagirl]

Machair - I thought maybe when temperature rose, then did not sustain, that maybe there had been ovulation of some sort going on, but that the follicle was so past it that it was not managing to produce the hormones that it should do after the ovulation - progesterone etc.

I gave up and went on hrt at 51 1/2 with no sign of bleeds stopping due to other symptoms.  They were not even getting light.  So I will probably never know the end-point. My last intervals were 6 wks (with 3 lots of heavy spotting or light bleeds), 26 days and 17 days.

My grandmothers were 50 and 51.  My mother did not discuss this, but I think she was under 50.

[Machair]

That is very interesting Dahliagirl thank you so much for posting this. So in the your last 6 week cycle before HRT do you mean you had 3 lots of spotting or light bleeds irregularly in that 6 week time frame? Do you feel better on HRT?

[dahliagirl]

Yes - I had 3 shorter bleeds within that time frame, with bigger longer bleeds either side.

I would say that I was more settled and stable and after 2 years (and upping to 2mg), I am feeling better.  I am doing lots of other things too though like diet and yoga.  I am starting to enjoy exercising again after nearly 4 years so I feel like I am getting back to where I was then in that respect, only a lot less fit. 

I am used to being on hormones though as I took the pill for years as it stopped pms symptoms.  I quite liked the first 5 months off the pill, until all the bleeding and other symptoms hit me.

[Machair]

I've had that slight show thing as well that never progresses to anything- last month infact. Maybe we are in the final stretch now. Are you counting that slight show as your last bleed for the year ahead so you still have 11 months to go Sparkle?

[Elizabethrose]

Oh Sparkle, these oestrogen plummets cause so many problems, they happen with such intensity. I feel sure when your hormones start to plateau all will improve for you. You are such a kindly soul, you come across as so upbeat and are so supportive to everyone on this site, I've read loads of your threads. You will be rewarded with the greatest post meno period!! xx

[Elizabethrose]

Forgot to say...........28 days today