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[MIS71MUM]

That's good.  It's really important when you are feeling as you are. 

Brightlight - did you try HRT or AD's at all? It's just you mention fibroids as a hormonal imbalance which I have.  I have started Oestrogel but I know that my oestrogen was 127 about 3 weeks ago so am hoping this will help me!!!

[Lizab]

In that case, I think dropping the hrt would be worth a try, giving it a good 6 months for your body to reclaim control in the hormone department. You'll probably experience turmoil from dropping it too. And meantime focus on the ADs. Then after several months if you have typical meno symptoms you could try again starting very low and slow. That all looks simple I know but I imagine it'll be hard. The last thing I want to hear right now is "give it X months". I know you've already had so much time invested in this. At least if you clear your system of added estrogen you'll be able to know for sure. You've been dealing with it long enough that it would be silly to not trust your gut on this one. I know my gut instincts have been wrong before, but you have tried all the experts' recommendations and they didn't work out, so what's to lose from trying to reboot?

[dazned]

I m sorry to see that things are still not good for you ,such a shame,despite seeking advise from the "specialist" . I agree with what others have suggested,time to clear the slate and start afresh. You have tried this that and the other regimes your system needs a break. You said looking back over your diary there didnt seem to be a cyclical pattern to your low moods,anxiety etc. So maybe let your body settle from hrt for a while,as you are still having regular periods despite no progesterone you are obviously still producing your own enough and the fact you dont get bleeding at odd times suggesting no excessive build up. In a couple of months see what your diary shows then and hopefully your ads will have at least got you in a better sttate on mind to think more positive. Hoping you pick up soon.

[BrightLight]

I think you speak such sense Brightlight, thank you.

I completely identify with extra fear being caused by the constant changes, and I dislike change even under normal circumstances.

I have also struggled with nausea, bloating and digestive issues for the last couple of months. And that constant underlying panic which saps your will to live.

really am with you on your road to wellness, it's very draining and fear begets fear etc. Hope you an interrupt the cycle very very soon x

[BrightLight]

That's good.  It's really important when you are feeling as you are. 

Brightlight - did you try HRT or AD's at all? It's just you mention fibroids as a hormonal imbalance which I have.  I have started Oestrogel but I know that my oestrogen was 127 about 3 weeks ago so am hoping this will help me!!!

Hello - no I haven't tried HRT or AD's - I am having therapy for emotional issues and regard the hormones/fibroids, I am currently rolling with the punches   I didn't want to take any hormones because I don't want my fibroids to grow, which is a possibility, but unknown really, they could have been there for a long time, but quite large. I was advised they shrink after menopause, I am holding out for that to happen. Meanwhile I am doing all the things bar HRT that are advised to try and keep hormones in balance, despite the natural unbalance of perimenopause. Does that make sense? 

[pepperminty]

Hi GRL,

I like the way that GRL abbreviation  has stuck ( you know what I mean). I have read through the reply's and had a think.

All medication has side effects. You are taking all different doses of different types of meds and regardless of anything , it is impossible and I mean impossible to see clearly what is or isn't working.

I do think you need to see who and how you are med free ( I advise doing this with expert help as you need to be monitored) for a bit and then with help work out a plan of action.

The reason I say monitored is because when you are so low it is difficult to see yourself rationally. I know because when I hit that terrifying, crippling, all encompassing fear and anxiety, I cannot function rationally even though I am an extremely capable woman.

Ladies , when do we ever give ourselves credit for all that we do, and who we are ? Life isn't Disney and it can be hard enough without the symptoms caused by our hormones to cope with.

 You are extremely intelligent and capable GRL. I know it seems a cliché but take everything in bite size pieces. It is easier to cope with.

Do keep on posting as there are people on the site who want to support you as you have supported others.

Pepperminty xx

[orchid]

Hi GRL... I know exactly how you feel! I had to contact the crisis team last November I was so bad with anxiety and depression. Long story short, I am post meno, I tried oestrogen again with little effect my problem was pure depression. I think you are overdosing on oestrogen and tipping the balance. Personally I would stop it. I tried Trazadone and worked ok, but found going back on Dosulepin 75mg got me back on track. As you will know they take a while to kick in. I agree with Mis 71, for all you will have little appetite and no motivation, make sure you eat well...its medicine. Drag yourself into the shower and out for a walk, believe me I know it's hard, but it will help with sleeping and reduce the anxiety. Also deep breathing and mindfulness...stay in the moment. You WILL get better Hun, don't worry and don't what if! Big hugs xx

[Dancinggirl]

If one can recognise when you need help, reach out to seek help and then accept that help, then this is a real sign of strength.  I like to think that this is what MM is all about.  DG x

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thanks Orchid. I never in my life thought I'd ever need a crisis team!

Can I ask how long you tried Trazadone for, and at what dose?

I started on 100mg for 2 weeks, then increased to 150mg for 3 weeks, and for last 4 days have been on 200mg but all it has done is improve my sleep a bit.

[Hurdity]

Hi GypsyRoseLee (I don't do abbreviations of forum names!)

I was also wondering how you were getting on and so sorry you are still not feeling good despite having gone to two specialists.

It is all so complicated isn't it? As someone said back down the thread your mid cycle oestrogen reading is not especially high. Adding oestrogen to a cycle which might be depleted in oestrogen is supposed to keep you feeling good - and especially to prevent the pre-menstrual oestrogen dip - which may well be more extreme during peri-menopause (as well as the highs getting higher for some women).  In your case it sounds almost like you were still in the stage before peri-menopause - referred to in STRAW criteria as the late reproductive stage - and this stage is where periods are still regular but some hormonal changes are occurring. I think this stage is more difficult to treat with HRT than when "official" peri-menopause starts ( as defined by NICE ie when periods become irregular).

I think Briony posted links several months ago about the worsening pms that occurs in the stage you are at - although it sounds like your oestrogen is already decreasing if periods are lighter and shorter so theoretically oestrogen should help. However if as is common at this stage, you experience high spikes in oestrogen it could go very high at times with your additional pumps of gel. Also as we've discussed before replacing oestrogen  only exogenously (ie from outsdie the body) only approximates what happens in your body so is less than perfect and seems like it doesn't always work for all women.

Of course also, in the natural menstrual cycle oestrogen does not stay at the ovulatory peak for the whole cycle - and I'm not sure how this would affect different women? I really don't know anything about the phenomenon of too much oestrogen apart from tachyphyllaxis - but that only occurs when levels are attained that are physiologically much higher than ever occur naturally - Prof Studd talks about this on his website re implants.

Sorry I'm probably not being much help am I?!

I can only suggest what the others have suggested - stop everything ( including the ADs) for a few weeks if you can cope and see how your body/mood reacts (need plenty of support to hand) - or change to a patch perhaps (did you say you felt better on this?). I'm not sure if you thought of Qlaira or tried it and I can't remember why if not - maybe the progestogen would not suit you?

If nothing helps even after waiting a couple of months then maybe (temporary) chemical menopause and adding back hormones is the answer - to prevent hormonal fluctuations - I know several on here have had this, but I think the results can also be unpredictable.

The only other person I would suggest is Nick Panay - thought not sure what he would say that the other two specialists have not already done - there aren't many that have seen him but maybe you can put up a post?

I wish you well and still hoping for a miracle for you

Hurdity x

[Babsm67]

Hello GypsyRoseLee,  I thought about you after reading Vintagefiend's thread a couple of days ago.  I am so sorry to hear that the new treatment is not helping.  What Hurdity has said about the Late Reproductive stage is very interesting as I still have periods every month & they were, until the last two months, 23-24 days apart but heavier (I do have a small fibroid).  Since recently starting oestrogel during the 2nd half of my cycle as advised, my cycle has lengthened to 28-30 days but I made the mistake of carrying it on into the next cycle (as I had fleeting vaginal dryness which worried me) & ended up with anxiety that went through the roof.  By day 4, I stopped it & the anxiety has lessened.  It is so hard to find a balance when we do not know what is going on with our own hormones day by day in the background.  I truly hope that having a break from the HRT will help you    xx

[lisa789]

Hi GRL so sorry to hear that you're going through such hell xx

I'm experiencing similar myself. I was diagnosed with severe PMDD and possible peri. First of all I was put on Evorel 50 but when it come to the progesterone part, 10mg of norethisterone for 12 days, I only managed 2 days as I felt so ill.

I saw 2 different specialists privately. One totally useless, he didn't even know what Utrogestan was when I asked after that so I went to see another lady. She told me to stop the Evorel as she wanted to take bloods on day 3 of my cycle.

Over the last year my bleeds have become shorter and a lot lighter, the year before that I missed some months but now back to regular monthly bleeds but very light. It's the emotional side that's got out of control. My anxiety goes sky high when I ovulate and I hyperventilate all the time. I feel like adrenaline is flowing through me and I'm in constant fight or flight mode. I've tried lots of anti depressants in the past, none of the SSRI/SNRI meds agree with me. I was on Trazodone for a couple of years but found it only helped with sleep. The good thing about Trazodone is it's easy to get on and off and has no side effects. I had a little insomnia when I stopped it but it soon passed. After the ovulation anxiety I get depression and panic attacks in the days leading up to my period to the extent I feel like I'm going mad and I feel suicidal. When my periods start its a deep depression for a few days where the thoughts I have honestly terrify me. All I want to do is die as I can't go on with this emotional roller coaster. The only thing I have to take is diazepam as the anti depressants aren't agreeable with me. I'm careful with diazepam as I'm terrified of addiction.

I had bloods taken by the private specialist and a smear and internal & external ultrasound. Everything come back ok and she's said I have severe PMDD and possible peri or just going into peri. I've been given microgynon to take continuously. I'm praying things improve as I honestly don't know how much more I can take.

Sorry for rambling on about me but I wanted to share my story with you as we're at a similar stage and suffering the same issues.

I would be careful with the quetiapine as its an antipsychotic drug. I think stopping everything will give you a better chance of knowing which is the root cause of your issue as I firmly believe the root cause needs to be ascertained before symptoms are treated as you just end up on loads of meds and the root cause is not dealt with.

It's strange how gynaecologists can prescribe antidepressants but psychiatrists can't prescribe hormones! I think a lot of women get diagnosed and treated for mental health issues when it's hormone imbalance causing the issues. There's no coincidence in the fact that more women suffer with mental illness than men, hormones being the difference. In the olden days I definitely would've ended up in an asylum. 4 days ago I was actively searching google for the best ways to commit suicide and screaming and crying constantly. Period now over and done with and its all gone. It's so frightening so I'm praying the microgynon works if not I'll go back and try a different pill.

Please keep us informed of your progress. Honestly my heart goes out to you as I know where you are right now emotionally and how hard it is to get through every day. Big hugs coming your way xx

[dangermouse]

Lisa, please note the first week or so things can get worse on the pill whilst your body is getting used to the additional hormones - it was my hardest time. After about 8 days things calmed immensely though so just be prepared in case you give in too soon with it.

Also, every pill makes me feel completely different so lots of options if this one doesn't suit. I found (and everyone is different):

Microgynon (Levonorgestrel & Oestrogen high) - very relaxed but no motivation which I could see moving into depression over time, acne which never had before.

Logynon (Triphasic of Levonorgestrel) - when oestrogen was 40, too over stimulated, the rest similar to Microgynon.

Loestrin (Norethisterone high, oestrogen low) - very relaxed, sleep very long, motivation low, a little moody.

Brevinor/Ovysmen (Norethisterone low, oestrogen high) - more motivated, less sleepy, breasts more tender, too stimulated/anxious at ovulation time (pill doesn't stop mine) but I switch to Loestrin for few days if this happens.

Norimin (Norethisterone & oestrogen high) - motivated, a little too moody, hungry all the time!

All 3rd gen pills like Cilest, Mercilon, Marvelon, Qlaira made me feel like I'd had a labotomy! However, many women prefer the newer ones so this is more to demonstrate the differences we can experience.

Also, if ovulation doesn't occur then you will still feel your own oestrogen surges but the pill dampens things massively as I could barely leave my bed before I went on them (mainly severe nausea and anxiety but completely understand the suicidal feelings as you can't imagine feeling normal again and the adrenaline rushes are terrifying).

[lisa789]

Thanks for that Dangermouse. Did you take yours continually without a break? I've been told to take the packs back to back.

Are you still on the pill and if so which one did you settle on? Thanks for the heads up with all that information.

As long as it doesn't cause me to feel sick I won't freak out over the kicking in period. I'm emetophobic so that's my main concern.

[dangermouse]

Yes I take mine back to back and have settled on Brevinor (and Loestrin when oestrogen naturally high). However, I'm still testing so just received Micronor (POP of Norethisterone) so will try that for a while but if the lack of oestrogen hits me I'll go straight back on Brevinor.
My GP said you can go from one to the other each day with the combined pulls without it causing any probs but obviously the longer you give them the easier it is to tell which works best.

My main symptom before the pill was extreme nausea (could only drink milk as I had over stimulated eyes, ears and stomach) from the oestrogen surges and this got worse when I added more oestrogen from the pill for the first week, but then it stopped completely. If you've not had nausea then hopefully you won't have it, esp of you didn't after first pill. Your anxiety might increase though so just grit your teeth through the first week if necessary!