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[GypsyRoseLee]

Phew, thanks for that Poppyflower and for converting the amounts properly. I was fretting that I had too much oestrogen and hence the nasty anxiety.

I've been doing a lot of reading back through my mood diary in preparation for seeing Annie Evans. And after comi g off the BCP last Autumn, I went about 9 days not wearing a patch, while I started taking Mirtrazapine. But after 9 days I felt dreadful on the Mirtrazapine so applied a 50mg patch again. I felt a similar surge of anxiety/dread after applying the patch, but then it settled down after a day or two.

So I'm thinking that as I'm very sensitive to hormonal fluctuations, I actually react to the rise in Oestrogen?

But, I can.also see from my diary that I did pretty well on 50mg patches with separate Utro, getting extended stints of up to 2.5 weeks of feeling great. I'd certainly be happy with that right now.

And, I might have done even better on a higher patch? My gut reaction is that my body likes more, not less, oestrogen?

Thank you for your encouragement. I always read your posts with interest as I know you are progesterone intolerant too. How are you finding using Prometrium?

[MIS71MUM]

Hi GRL

Sorry that you are really suffering. I really feel for you and would echo what J & C say about the scanning, analysing and overthinking.

I am currently having CBT sessions for my anxiety and I really thinking you would benefit too once you've sorted your HRT/AD's out.  When we are anxious we develop negative thinking patterns which cause further anxiety and drops in mood.  When I first started seeing my therapist, I told her about my mood diary and she made me bin it. She didn't want me reading about moods as she said it would lower mine, cause a cycle and avoid me facing up to the situation. In addition, it was keeping me in my head and out of my life.

Whatever the cause of the anxiety, CBT gives you skills to deal with the negative thinking cycle.  As others have said, it isn't a quick fix but its very worthwhile.  I still fall down the rabbit hole sometimes, scanning, assessing and analysing but now I know where it leads me, I stop myself getting fully carried away.

I'm a fellow chronic anxiety sufferer and I know what you are going through...I hope this helps. There are some very good CBT books out there also.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you Mis71mum

I was told to keep a mood diary to try and keep track of symptoms and see how they corresponded to my cycle. And it has been really beneficial in provifing written proof that these awful moods DO lift (because when I am really down and anxious I am aleays convinced I will never bounce back). When I am 'well' I never think about my mood diary, and go days without writing anything in it. Then have to catch up in it, and just write 'Fine' on every page. But when I am 'bad' I write far more, and keep checking back in it for evidence that the current low mood will lift.

I have never suffered with any anxiety until these last 2 years, and I'm only just coming to terms with it now.

But I do agree that over analysing everything is negative. I did try CBT a couple of years ago, but frankly the therapist was pretty useless. Very young, and not very experienced. I got the impression she was just reading from a text book and not really understanding what she was reading.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Oh, I pressed 'post' too soon.

Meant to add, that after having such a dreadful Thursday night and all day yesterday, I fell asleep on the sofa last night, just for half an hour.......................and woke up feeling as right as rain. Upbeat mood and zero anxiety.

How can I change so drastically in just 30 minutes? It is so extreme. If it wasn't happening to me personally, I don't think I would be able to believe it could happen.

I was still really tired after my nap last night (hadn't slept a wink Thursday night) so took myself off to bed at 8.30 and slept right through until 7.30 this morning. Woke still feeling as right as rain.

It's no wonder, as Prof. Studd says, that so many women are diagnosed, erroneously, with bi polar, when actually they suffer from hormonal anxiety and depression. The mood swings can be that extreme.

I suppose the big difference is that when I'm fine I'm certainly not manic, or hyper, I am just normal and happy to do normal stuff.

[Kathleen]

Hello GypsyRoseLee.

I just wanted to agree with you about the sudden changes in mood. Earlier in my meno journey I genuinely worried that I was bi polar as my moods seemed to turn on a sixpence ( now that dates me lol).

I hope you enjoy your day and find comfort from knowing that it's always possible to feel better.

Take care.

K.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi Kathleen

Yes, I must admit that bi polar has crossed my mind more than once! But I'm never manic when I come out of these dreadful anxiety lows. I am just me, being normal again.

I won't deny though that chopping and changing my regimes won't have helped either. Whatever Annie Evans starts me on, I intend to stick with it for at least 3-4 months.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Thank you sparkle.

Like you say, it is so extreme that it's scary. I'm really hoping that as time goes on and I get closer to menopause then they won't be as extreme anymore?

Posts like yours do give me hope though. When your mood was low did you get awful anxiety too?

Day 3 of your period is when your oestrogen is meant to be at its lowest. This could cause your migraine?

[Mary G]

GRL, I glad you are feeling better, it takes ages for the dreaded progesterone to work its way out of your system and I once had a silent migraine 18 days after taking the last tablet.  This proves it has a very long half life because synthetic progesterone/too much Utrogestan is the sole cause of my migraines.  How long is it since you took your last dose of progesterone?

Low oestrogen will definitely cause migraine and many women get migraines before or at the begining of their periods. 

[MIS71MUM]

Yes GRL my anxiety only started 2 years ago and I hate it. And it just got worse and worse.  I daren't go to a hairdressers now or drive! I mean what's that all about? I've been doing both of those things for nearly 30 years and only now they become a problem.

My therapist is brilliant - she's 50 and she's extremely tough with me but positive and knows exactly where I am coming from. In fact, I'll really miss her when I stop seeing her in the next few weeks.  I do miss my diary though but I was falling into the trap of writing page after page about how rubbish I felt each morning....so when I got up that was the first thing I did and never gave myself a chance to see how I felt. I hope i didn't offend you by the way but I was worried about you.

All I want to know now is how long this damn peri will last!

All the best.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hi MaryG

I took the last combi tab, a week last Thursday, so 8/9 days ago. Last month, it also took about 8/9 days after finishing the combi tabs for me to recover, too (though I took the full 14 combi tabs, that time).

I suppose 8-9 days isn't that long really? But when you are feeling so dreadfully low and anxious, it feels like an eternity.

Did you see my post about how Prof Studd's team induced PND symptoms in new Mums via administering synth progesterone? It's frightening how dreadful it can make you feel, if you are intolerant of it.

[GypsyRoseLee]

Mis71mum, you didn't offend me at all, honestly.

This hormonal anxiety is truly vile isn't it? It has hit me in just the same way as you, making me dread doing every day stuff that I used to do automatically.

So far, it has never stopped me driving, but there have been plenty of times when I have dreaded doing it.

My mood diary is actually quite small, just a pocket size, so not much room to write per day, which is probably just as well. But instead, when I am 'bad' I spend far too much time on here or Googling my symptoms etc. It's unhealthy I know. It makes me totally disengage from my life and puts me in a frightened little bubble, though at the time it actually makes me feel better. Odd?

My aim is to only come on here to give a bit of advice and support, but mainly post on the other forums on here about every day stuff. That way, I will know that my peri Hell is finally controlled and just part of my background. I am so sick and tired of it being in my foreground 24/7.

[Hurdity]

Hi vintage. Yes I recognise everything you write about. I read somewhere that if you have been suffering with anxiety and mood swings for a long time, then you need a low dose AD to restore your brain chemistry?

It just frustrates me that I feel perfectly well for up to 2 weeks per month, but then it all descends into Hell.

I'm wondering if I'm also suddenly feeling so wretched because I stopped the oral oestrogen 2 days ago and swapped to a patch, and during this transfer my oestrogen levels have really dropped?

I don't know much about absorption from patches Vs oral, or whether the patch would immediately compensate for oral absorption?

And I can feel another sharp headache coming on! That'll be the third one in 4 days!

I'm only just catching up with some of the threads - there are so many!

I hope I haven't said this already as I haven't gone back to the beginning!! Its quite tricky as you say about comparable doses (of oestrogen) and the amounts given are only a rough guide because women vary so much in how much is absorbed from the different products and with different modes of delivery. So - the post-menopausal tablets give 2 mg oestrogen as higher dose but for peri-menopause this is medium dose, and also for oestrogen only preparations. Maybe this is to reflect that if you are peri-menopausal you still have a lot of your own oestrogen and "need" less when post-menopausal? 50 mcg is always a medium dose patch though?

Depending on your absorption you could be experiencing the change in delivery as an increase (you absorb the patches better than the tablets - or a decrease (you absorbed the tablets well).  Increase and decreases in both hormones lead to  - sometimes similar ones for different reasons so it's often difficult to attribute a particular symptoms to the rise and fall in a specific hormone. Only time will tell really. It's frustrating not knowing isn't it?!

I remember when I had natural periods my mood would change very quickly - I used to get the dreadful pmt just before the period - the irritability, tension, headaches (but not especially low mood) - mainly due to the progesterone withdrawal - my period would then start and after a couple of days even though I was still bleeding I could feel the tension melt away and I would feel normal again - which I know would be a combination of the progesterone withdrawal finishing and the surge in oestrogen as I started a new cycle. I can imagine how dramatic this must feel if even more extreme because it was so noticeable to me every cycle.

The migraines are either due to progesterone withdrawal or low oestrogen. I would suggest the sudden onset migraines are more likely to do with prog withdrawal because of the physiological changes that occur when we take prog and various cellular effects etc, but maybe it can be due to either? In my case it was prog withdrawal because I got them even when on HRT and oestrogen was constant and it was associated with that pmt tension you get just before the period.

Not long now before you see Dr Evans and hope you are still feeling OK 

Hurdity x

[MIS71MUM]

Yes I'm seriously considering seeing Dr Evans as I really think I need hrt/pill.  I've been on my AD's for 5 months now and am just tired out all the time. My get up and go has gone, the hot flushes are creeping in and have started to notice headaches again. Then of course there the anxiety.

Sparkle - how did you get through that awful anxiety, with AD's or HRT?

[Briony]

Hi GRL

Really sorry to hear things are not good.

Only got a few mins now so apologies for short post (family here). Just wanted to say, nausea and dizziness for me is definitely a sign of low estrogen or fluctuating. I know this as I happened to have a blood test in the midst of a bad bout of it. Estrogen was 41 pmol.

Also, I had very similar side effects when I took Amitriptyline. In fact it affected me so badly I remember calling ooh doctor for reassurance!

Finally, have you read what Studd says about the number of women incorrectly treated for BPD when in fact it is down to ovarian dysfunction. Interesting - and reassuring - reading!

Apologies so disjointed! B xxx

[MIS71MUM]

I agree this site really helps and friends too who are going through the same thing too. 
Even though I'm on AD's I still have anxiety and feel like I'm muddling through. So do feel at 44 I may need HRT as well.