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Author Topic: Sleep  (Read 6924 times)

Niamh

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Sleep
« on: December 13, 2015, 04:30:29 AM »

I'm sorry if I'm repeating myself on here as ive posted a few times in the last few days but thought it best to start a new post! I'm seeing prof studd primarily for pmt but suspect I'm also peri. I'm 41 and saw him in oct. One of my worst pmt symptoms has been insomnia (I was getting pockets of it outside of my cycle too) I fall asleep ok but then wake frequency often hot, panicky, wide awake, some nights I get back to sleep ok others im awake for ages and just wired. I have 2 little boys one who is nearly 2 so a lie in doesn't happen. I started on ostrogel 3 pumps a day and testosterone daily in oct, I used these alone until 1st dec. October was bumpy but Nov was great and my sleep and other symptoms all under control then I took Utrogestan for 7 days this month and it's been all downhill. My sleep has been really disrupted again and I'm feeling really fed up tired and depressed about it. I got insomnia day 2 of the utrogestan it then calmed a bit but still wasn't great but post stopping it it's come back and the last 3 days have been bad. I don't really understand why. I'm progesterone intolerant so now I'm not on the utro i thought I'd feel good again and sleep ok? Tbh this is no better now than before if not a bit worse so makes me think again about continuing but I felt so great last month im disappointed. I really don't know what to do, I guess keep going and see prof stuff next month. Maybe this is just normal and will calm down :( any advice and thoughts welcome as you're all so much more experienced than me. Would using my ostrogel twice a day help? 2 pumps morning 1 evening or am I clutching at straws!
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GypsyRoseLee

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #1 on: December 13, 2015, 01:24:08 PM »

Utrogestan hasca sedating affect, so it could be that taking it has messed up your own sleep cycle for a while?
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Mary G

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #2 on: December 13, 2015, 03:18:14 PM »

Niamh, Utrogestan has the opposite affect on me and I sleep very well (8 hours of deep, uninterrupted sleep) while taking it but I have heard of others who have the same problem as you.  Firstly, I think you should try splitting your Oestrogel dose which is difficult when on 3 pumps a day but you might want to consider 2 pumps at night and 1 pump 12 hours later or vice versa.  Oestrogel taken in high doses in one hit could be making you a bit hyperactive and that might be part of the problem with sleep. 

Secondly, Utrogestan will undermine the good work that the gel does and this could also be contributing to you depressed mood and sleep problems.  I don't get a low mood or sleep problems while taking Utrogestan but I have had silent migraines (migraine aura without headache) while taking it and that is one of the reasons I now split the Oestrogel dose because I realised the migraines struck more than 12 hours after taking it and must have been caused by the dip in oestrogen levels.  That same dip is probably causing your problems but obviously you have different symptoms from me. 

Feeling hot and panicky at night is a classic symptom of low oestrogen.  I used to get this when staying in Spain at night in the summer when it was often over 25 degrees at 2 a.m.  The air conditioning would be roaring away in the bedroom and I felt as though I couldn't get enough air and thought I was going to die (sometimes I used to think we would all die if it got much hotter) but I was too scared to leave the bedroom because it was even hotter in the rest of the house and outside!  I didn't actually feel that hot on my body and I've never had night sweats or hot flushes but I just had a terrible panic attack and felt that I couldn't get enough air.  Do you experience something similar?

I'm pleased to say that since taking the Oestrogel, that has completely gone and I never get panic attacks like that now. 
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Niamh

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #3 on: December 13, 2015, 03:43:57 PM »

Hi Mary thank you! Yes I think I'll try splitting my dose...I did sleep ok on the utro apart from I think 2nd night of it it's really since I stopped the major sleep issues have come back :( I do put on 3 pumps about 6.30/7am at the mo so I can see that by 2am (classic time for my first wake) im running low. Sleep is sometimes hot and panicky, always panicky actually then if I get back to sleep restless and frequently waking again anxious and wired! I think I did have one very solid night on the utro as I said it's coming off it which is really causing me grief. I'll split dose from tomorrow do you think its best to do the higher dose in the morning so 2 pumps and 1 pump at night you mentioned a high dose could make me a bit hyper and that's the last thing I need at night!!x
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Mary G

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #4 on: December 13, 2015, 04:41:20 PM »

Ideally, it would be better to spilt the gel dose 50/50 if you can but that is difficult with the pump method.  Because of your sleeping difficulties, I would err on the side of taking 1 pump at night a 2 pumps 12 hours later if I were you.  If it doesn't work, you can always try it the other way round. 

You might find you start sleeping better once your period starts. 
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Niamh

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #5 on: December 13, 2015, 04:54:11 PM »

Thank you! It started thurs/fri but just spotting more of a bleed yesterday and today but not much im ever hopeful for tonight! Thanks again x
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GypsyRoseLee

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #6 on: December 13, 2015, 05:16:58 PM »

That sounds familiar MaryG. Last night I was just getting into bed but felt too warm and had to take night shift off. Then lay in bed feeling sleepy but with a panicky sensation iny chest. I really wanted to race around bedroom going aaarrgghhhh but luckily managed not to. But I have never had a single hot flush or night sweat or anything, either. Just that horrible wave of dread and doom.

I am wearing a 50mg patch at moment but presumably it's not enough?
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Mary G

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #7 on: December 13, 2015, 05:50:43 PM »

GypsyRoseLee, I can only speak from my own experiences but a 50mcg patch was nowhere near enough for me and blood tests confirmed that my oestrogen levels were too low on that dose.  I then switched to 100mcg and even that was no good.  So yes, sorry to say this but it could well be the case with you too.  I felt hollow and tinny (if that makes any sense) on both these doses and always felt like my themostat was not working properly and I used to break into a sweat far too easily. 

Apologies again for being so repetitive but the Oestrogel changed everything for me and it was only when I started taking it that I went back to normal.  The problem I have now is that I seem to take it in like a sponge and even two pumps register very highly on blood tests (had another one last week) so it would appear that in my case, it's all about absorption rates.  Everyone reacts differently to all types of medication so it's trial and error really. 

Hope that helps.
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Niamh

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #8 on: December 14, 2015, 12:09:48 PM »

Hello both so another rubbish night needless to say so tired today and heartbeat feels a bit racy! Ive actually emailed Prof Stuff for his advice and view. Ive started to split the ostrogel so did 2 pumps this morn and 1 tonight, feel a bit of a dip alrealy but don't know if that's just tired or adjusting to a new dose regime! I guess give it a few days, just hope this ends soon, thanks for all your advice now hoping he replies soon!x
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Mary G

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #9 on: December 14, 2015, 12:45:22 PM »

Sorry to hear you still not feeling any better.  If you don't hear from Professor Studd soon, give his secretary a call this afternoon and run it past her, she is very knowledgeable and will probably be able to give you some guidance. 
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Hurdity

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #10 on: December 14, 2015, 01:37:07 PM »

Hi Niamh

Sorry to hear about your ongoing problems. if your experimentation with oestrogel  doesn't do the trick perhps you could consider trying oestrogen patches as this should give a more consistent dose without a daily dip (if that is what you are sensitive to and if that is what is causing a resumption of symptoms in your case)? I know each of us prefers our chosen method but there are women for whom patches don't work so well, but gel does, and also vice versa. Women do seem to vary in how well they absorb the different preparations - both orally and transdermally.

Hurdity x
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Niamh

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #11 on: December 14, 2015, 01:50:52 PM »

Thank you Hurdity, it seems to be more since taking the utro ive had probs so not sure it's the ostrogel as when I was just on this for a while I felt great!!

Mary can I ask a really  daft question!? When you apply the gel do you rub it in or leave a thin layer to absorb now paranoid im putting it on wrong. I put on the inside of my arm and rub in quite a bit maybe that's wrong but yet agsin was doing the trick until I had to take damn utro!

Also with splitting the dose how long do you think I should give it a few days and if no better like you said try 1 pump in the morn and 2 in the evening?
X
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GypsyRoseLee

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #12 on: December 14, 2015, 05:44:02 PM »

That does help MaryG. Can I ask what were your symptoms before starting on oestrogel and what dosage did you end up taking if even 100mg wasn't enough.

I have been very up and down these last few days. Slept fine, but woke this morning feeling so flat and depressed that I could have cried. Have had to drag myself through the day, force myself to fake smiles and make conversation etc.

Yet only 2 days ago I was quite light hearted and joking around with my Mum whilst shopping. Is this how you were too?
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Mary G

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #13 on: December 14, 2015, 06:38:32 PM »

Niamh, I rub the gel over my outer, upper arms and shoulders and then wipe off the residue on my thighs.  I do this before going to bed at night.  For the next dose which I take 12 hours later, I can't do this because it's during the day so I just rub it on my arms.  You don't need to overly rub it in, but just spread it out over your skin and leave it to dry - it usually takes about 5 minutes to dry. 

GypsyRoseLee, I was on the 100mcg patch at the time I sought help and saw Professor Studd and he recommended I switch to the gel.  For some reason, I always had problems absorbing the patches and he said it is a common problem and he always prefers to prescribe the gel. 

It is difficult to pin point how I felt while the patches were not working.  I didn't particularly suffer with mood swings and I have never had hot flushes or night sweats but I did have vaginal dryness and my temperate control was not great.  I became hot (but not intensely as people do with hot flushes) far more quickly than I should have and broke into a sweat far too easily.  For example, if I was outside in very hot weather and then went into an air conditioned room or car, I would start sweating which I would never have done before and don't now so I knew that something was not right.  Also, particularly in hot weather or stuffy conditions, I had the panic attacks in bed at night even though my body was not actually hot to the touch - I now think that this did in fact have something to do with internal body temperature.  Believe me, it was not fun and I felt that I should find a better alternative which fortunately I did. 

To summarise, it was a generic feeling of hollowness, not firing on all cylinders and an overwhelming feeling that the medication was not hitting the spot. 

Hope that helps. 
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Niamh

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Re: Sleep
« Reply #14 on: December 15, 2015, 09:59:11 AM »

Thanks Mary, I'm sure Ive been putting it on right!! So a better night last night and my mood and anxiety levels much better today, I think the fog might be lifting. I split my ostrogel but did find even the 1 pump in the evening gave me a burst of energy so found it harder to fall asleep and although I then woke at 1.30 I did get back to sleep ok and then slept fairly lightly and restlessly but no awake for hours panicing so this is a massive improvement! Ive actually today put 3 pumps on again first thing as I want to see if my sleep is better or worse tonight as a result to test splitting the dose or whether things are just calming down for me, if that makes sense!

GRL we are really similar as you know, I recognise your symptoms and actually found one of your old posts where you were going through the same as me post taking utrogestan, this has to do with our prog intolerance issues surely!? The ostrogel/testosterone worked a treat for me its only since having to add back in prog that Ive had issues...I'm really looking forward to getting Professor Studd view on all of this mid Jan when I see him and will report back. What are you taking at the moment?
x
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