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[purdey]

Hi I would really appreciate some advise re which HRT is best for anxiety in Peri and to avoid triggering PMT…...

I have suffered with anxiety due to major life stresses throughout different times in my life …..but had been saying to my doctor for about the last year that I'd really noticed a peak in anxiety symptoms just prior to my period and that this anxiety felt different, physiological rather than psychological…... got really bad in October along with

Insomnia/ sudden excruciating indigestion/ tight chest and heart palpitations/jittery inside/ weakness in my arms/ headaches ( had these the last year) … fluctuating/ heavier periods / no sign of hot flushes!!

After much debate with my doctor that it wasn't my usual anxiety she agreed to try me on HRT Evorel Conti 50 on the 10th Novemeber … she had previously done blood tests  twice in the year to say i was Peri but very early Peri.

At first it was great…within 5-7 days most of my symptoms had gone and I was feeling joyful for the first time in forever.

Then Day 12 started with PMT like symptoms which grew, ( I had terrible PMT when younger and have avoided it for years as on evening primrose and vitamins )

Grumpy / Cramping / Bloated/ Headachy/ Nausea/ sudden pain in my right breast for one day ( not sore as have taken Evening primrose oil for years )

it was all better than having anxiety!!

Day 16 …got one day of sudden anxiety in the morning which went


Then day 23+24….Insomnia came back and the dreaded anxiety started to grow along with slight nausea and headaches ever since and yday and today have been awful :-(


Please if anyone can help me as i feel like I'm going doolally….My QUESTIONS are :

I got a bit concerned after reading the forum and menopause matters advise posts that I shouldn't be on Conti…can anyone else educate me on this please?


Anyway I went back to the docs this morning and asked if I could try an Oestrogen only patch along with Utrogestran to see if it is the Progesterone is causing my PMT symptoms and bringing back the anxiety.

Does anyone have any knowledge of anxiety and whether Progesterone would cause anxiety or which hormone drop / increase is causing this?

Also doc has put me on Utrogestran 200mg for 12 days out of my cycle so that i have a natural bleed….is this the best option if it is the Progesterone affecting me?

Thank you so much if you've taken the time to read this much much appreciated!

[Dancinggirl]

Hi and welcome to MM
I think you have asked for the best combination to try.  Oestrogen, as either patch of gel, with Utrogestan 200mg for 12 days per month is a very good option. Especially as you are still early peri you will need the 200mg for the 12 days.  Don't look for problems with the Utro(progesterone) part of this regime as it is a natural, more gentle, type of progesterone so you may actually feel really good on it (I feel great when taking it!!!).  Many of us find its when they stop taking the Utrogestan just before the bleed starts that they suffer a couple of days of PMT!!! You must remember that you would probably get far worse PMT, sore breasts and cramps etc. without HRT and it is unrealistic to expect to feel good all the time especially when in the peri meno when your own hormones will be fluctuating in the background.
What dose of oestrogen have you been given? If it's a 50mg patch I would cut this in half to start with as you may only need a small dose in this early peri stage.  You can then increase the amount over the next few weeks or months.  If you have the gel( which makes dose control far easier) then stick with one pump per day for a few weeks.
Do try some Mindful Meditation alongside the HRT to help control anxiety and help you to enjoy the good days.
As your own hormones subside over time the HRT will take over and gradually you should feel more in balance - though this depends on how long you are in the peri stage.
DG x

[AuntyBiz]

Hello @Dancinggirl

I'm not an expert but I just wanted to extend a welcome and say hello.

AuntyBiz xx

[dolly64]

Hi Purdey,like you I am also a newbie,just joined today,i am also after advice regarding Hrt for anxiety.
My story is that my periods been messing around few years,went months without one beginning of the year,then they returned,always light with lots of clots,usually got a migraine around the time it appeared,bloated,tired ect.
I started not sleeping well,waking few times a night,started noticing that heart seemed to miss beats followed by a large beat,only noticed at night or when relaxed,mentioned to a friend who said a symptom of peri,so I carried on as usual.ive also got dry eye.or dry everything I think.

Anyway got to about September time and I experienced a very heavy period,heaviest in years,it hung around with spotting for few weeks,im sure from this point something changed.one day onway home from shopping.in the car,hubby driving,i had a weird turn,felt breathless,think palpitations,i think I panicked also,felt awful.another day it happened while on a dog walk,both times it went away after a while,when home,but then had a whole day with palps on and off,ended up A+E,told heart ok,sent home,see dr.

DR booked me for a 24hr monitor,also gave me propranolol for the palpitations,i couldn't take much as get to low blood pressure,made me feel yuk,so I didn't go out much at all,and anxiety seems to of pounced on me big time,i had anxious times here and there but now im anxious about everything that was normal for me,i try to do things like dog walk,pop quickly in a small shop,a short car ride(going in car is hard,i feel so annoyed,i just get anxious).
Waiting for results of monitor now,then if ok think Dr try me on HRT,hence why I interested in your post purdey,as I don't want anymore anxiousness,but hopefully something that helps it.

So if anyone has any advice that could help me as well as purdey I would be very grateful,as I think this is worst time of my life so far.
sorry if long post.
Dolly64

[SadLynda]

Purdey, I am no expert on hrt, but from what I have read here sounds like you are on right track, wish you well.

Dolly64, you could be me   I never got my palpatations looked at as was too scared, but this was how I started out - I just thought I was going nuts, put up with it for years.  In short I changed GP's twice and have just been lucky enough to find one to finally help me.  You can try the Omega 7 for dry eyes/skin etc often helps.  For the rest its a 'good' gp visit, I got oestrogen cream and AD's for anxiety and depression... as I let it go on far too long, dont make the same mistake I did and go for quality of life NOW we do not deserve to continue to suffer when there is no need.

[Kathleen]

Hello purdey and dolly4 and a warm welcome to you both.

There are many HRT experts on the forum though sadly I'm not one of them!

I just wanted to say that your experiences will be familiar to many and this is certainly a very challenging time in our lives. The good news is that we are here to help and support each other which makes this whole menopause madness a lot more bearable in my opinion!

Please keep posting and sending hugs.

K.

[dolly64]

Hi sadlynda,yes I really want to get myself sorted,im pushing myself to do things,ive made a appointment with a councellor,dr said may help,although that's weeks away yet,waiting list .Wonder if Hrt will help,some seem to be helped with anxiety but just worried in case makes it worse,if I try and doesn't then I will have to try another route.Evidently the beta blocker I take helps people but has to be higher dose and I cant take more.
It shocked me how things change so quickly.
Hope you are now feeling better with the right tabs.

Hi Kathleen,thankyou for the welcome.I can totally see that this is a very helpful forum and it helps you see that even though we feel singled out with our problems that we are just one of many,all suffering because of our misbehaving hormones.Thanks for the hug,much appreciated.
Dolly

[dazned]

Hello and 

I dont think it will necessarily make it worse per se but it can be a fine juggling trick too find the correct balance of hrt to suit you and unfortunately it takes time to settle down too. This time of year is stressful enough in itself so that sadly wont help matters much either. I personally have found it didnt help my anxiety,palps,etc and took an AD alongside my hrt,however everyone is different.
Hope you find something that suits you and that you settle down soon.

[purdey]

Thank you all so much for all your advise...im so happy to have found this forum.

dancinggirl its good to hear that you have no problems with the Utrogestran it gives me hope. Can i ask did you ever suffer with bad PMT before? I havent had it for years fue to vitamins and e primrose but then it sounds right what you're saying about our own horm nes fluctuating wildly in the background!  Im on the 50 oestrogel as thats what was in the Evorel Conti patches and apart from dizziness and nausea in the first fe days seemed fine after that.....do you know what symptoms would i get if i had too much oestrogel in my system ?

Sorry to hear about your problems with anxiety too ( sorry im on phone and cant scroll to see your name and have terrible memory! Your pattern sounds like mine. Even though have suffered with anxiety this is nothing like ive had before it consumes every part of me and i feel for you as the heart palps are horrific ( i too am going for a heart monitor but im convinced now from reading tgis forum that it is peri causing it!!) i try to tell myself that it will pass when its happening now and just let it do its thing as i now know it cant kill me!! Also ive been seeing an accupuncturist and that has helped a bit as does yoga and walking the anxiety out....have you tried yoga?
After 5 days of being on HRT the palps went so do try the HRT. Also i am taking a high dose of magnesium which helps regulate the heart and nervous system which might be worth trying, i dont know if it was that or the HRT but i started sleeping better. Theres some great info on panic attacks and how to cope on organisations like anxiety uk or might be called no more panic ...i will check fir you later when on my laptop.Really hope you get sorted...from what ive read on here from other wonderful women there will be light at the end of the tunnel hang in there

We certainly draw the short straw in life but then again it is wonderful how supportive women are imagine being a man and going through this lol

Thanks again for all your help dont know what i would do without this forum....😊

[purdey]

Sadlynda sorry to hear that you too suffered.....can i ask what oestrogen cream you are on and are you taking progesterone? Also which AD did your doc give you?
 I am AD adverse as the thought of the side effects scares me, though did use Anitryptilene for a few years on low dose for my IBS but had to come off them start of this year due to something else going on and stupidly didnt go back on them, im thinking once have got to grips with HRT might go back on them as they did help a bit with anxiety and sleep!
Hope you are feeling good now and it is working for you...do you still get palps?

DancingGirl do you know if oral utrogestran has an agfect on people who have IBS?

Thanks again X

[dolly64]

Thanks for the welcome Dazned,yes not a good time of year to get this problem,just hoping I can get it sorted or at least improved soon.

Hi purdey,i agree with you,this forum is so helpful,all helping each other with advice and knowledge.
Glad you having the heart monitor,always best to get checked,im still awaiting my results,which is why dr hasn't started me on hrt yet.I am worried about starting it as like a lot of ladies on here I don't take meds well,even painkillers can upset my stomach,so think will ask for a patch and utrogestan and hope dr lets me.
I havnt tried yoga,id like to but where I am there isn't any classes ,I suppose I could look online for some easy instructions,if anyone knows of a site let me know please.Im trying to get out for a walk every day,push myself to do something,try to ignore the anxiety feelings but I cant do supermarkets again yet,and travelling in the car is a bad one,hubby takes me for a drive every day,havnt got far yet,im trying.IM waiting for a councelling appointment,dont know if that will help.
I started taking Menopace supplement yesterday,has vitamins and soya in,unsure if can take that when having hrt.

Hope the Hrt you are taking purdey works for you,keep us informed.How old are you if you don't mind me asking,im 51 on Wednesday.

dolly.

[Dancinggirl]

Hi purdey
Firstly, yes I did have a certain amount of PMT though I went on the pill due to very bad periods pains at the age of 17 and I think this controlled any PMT.  I did get PND after my first baby which was quite nasty and I have had bouts of bad depression over the years.  Like you, I would be concerned about ADs and in fact when I was prescribed them by my GP at one stage, my pharmacist (who was great and knew I had young children at the time) printed off all the side effects and stressed I should read them carefully before deciding to take them.  I opted for CBT/counselling therapy instead which I think has given me strategies to cope better since.
As for IBS and Utrogestan - I have suffered on and off with digestive problems during stressful times and in fact we have Crohns and Ulcerative Colitis in the family so sensitive guts are in the genes - because I have such a sensitive bladder I decided that using Utro vaginally wouldn't be a good idea so have always used it orally. One must take Utro on an empty stomach and I thought this would be a problem but I have got into a routine of having a good supper no later than 8pm and taking the Utro about 10-10.30pm(I apply the Oestrogel at the same time) and not only do I sleep better but my digestive system seems to have really settled.  I was opening my bowels 2-4 times a day but now only one or 2 times per day which is a great improvement. The other plus for me is that I'm not getting the horrid headaches I had before when on synthetic progesterone - in fact my headaches were really bad when I wasn't taking any HRT!!! I'm not having to take so many pain killers as well so generally my health has improved - I think mainly because I get better quality sleep and the Utro seems to have a calming effect.
Now I am not saying this will all happen with you - we are all different, you are peri meno and using Utro in a sequential regime so there may be ups and downs. Unfortunately many women who are seriously progesterone intolerant, quite rightly, share their experiences on MM and their stories can sound very frightening but one mustn't forget all the up sides of HRT, nor must one expect it to be a cure all.
I would stick with the 50mg patch and see how it goes. I found just one pump of Oestrogel ( which is a bit lower that 50mg patch) was good for me in early peri - higher doses gave me headaches - don't look for problems though, just let your body welcome the hormones - there may be sore breasts and odd sensations but my gynae describes this as the body waking up - which I think is a nice way of describing the settling in side effects.
You have opted for a good regime so "go for it girl".  Dg x

[purdey]

HI Dolly64,
Thank you for your kind words....I'm 47 and in Peri. i'm feeling really nervous about getting this right but i suppose it's just trial and error and patience and getting good advise.
glad you are managing to push yourself through the anxiety, that's really important not to give in as it just makes it feel even bigger if you lock yourself away I have been there many years ago!...the CBT should help, it did for me. I do a gentle yoga called Dru Yoga, they have an online shop for DVDs which i do at home very easy to follow and definitely helps to calm me ...and if i do it every day, it feels preventative! I will try and find that link for you in a min for the anxiety help but wanted to reply first.
 Feel free to keep talking X

Hi Dancing Girl, thanks for sharing what you have been through...that's really helpful to know that you have had similar issues with digestive problems and with depression ,though i've never had children so don't know if i would have had PND, that sounds horrible. It's good to hear that your regime has worked for you. Hopefully it will work better for me too. Are you in full menopause ? Do you know what are the symptoms of progesterone intolerance? I'm so new to all this it feels like there's so much to get my head round!!

I'm feeling a bit down about the whole HRT thing at the moment as today my hairdresser made me feel like I was making the wrong choice when i told her...she thinks I am only delaying the inevitable by taking HRT and that i'm taking it too early and will only have to face all the symptoms when I have to come off it after the maximum 5 years i can be on it ....is this true?? thanks again for being so open much appreciated. X

[Hurdity]

Hi purdey

Just to say  from me too!

I presume you have been given Evorel 50 patches not oestrogel, to go with the utrogestan? I am on this combo - well at least Estradot 50 patches which are similar. I am on a longer cycle as I am well post-meno so hardly any of my own hormones!

As a matter of interest - what was your cycle doing before you started the HRT - has it been irregular for some time ie skipping periods or was it at the getting closer together stage? I ask because you mentioned no hot flushes which is usually a sign of hormones decreasing. The increased pms often happenes before peri-menopause when hormonal changes begin but periods are still regular - it did with me - but I didn't know this was what it was!! I got terrible pre-menstrual migraines, floods of tears, increasing breast pain and weird low blood sugar feelings in the second half of my cycle. My hot flushes didn't start until periods had stopped for a few months.

Anyway do hope you feel better soon and your symptoms lessen so that you can cope with them

Hurdity x

[Hurdity]

Hi dolly64

 

There are two welcome threads going on here so thought I would answer you separately!

Re the extra heart beats - that's very common and sounds like ectopic heart beats - is that what it was said that you had? I have had these - in pregnancy they came on and had to go and see a heart specialist but all was OK. I still get them now and again especially if too much caffeine.

What a pity they gave you beta-blockers before considering HRT! Palpitations are a common symptom of menopause and if you are thinking about HRT then this is a better solution - if it eliminates the palpitations. I would not want to take them if there was nothing actually wrong with my heart for the same reason as you are cautious - that they decrease blood pressure so that coming off them could be tricky.  My BP is also quite low. I can see you want to wait for your results just to check all is OK first though . Do you have any other symptoms eg flushes or sweats or are you on any medication which might mean you don't experience these?

Anyway do hope everything is OK heartwise and then that you are successful in obtaining the HRT of your choice - if you want to go down this route.

Hurdity x