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Author Topic: updates on self experimentation.  (Read 10505 times)

dogdoc

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updates on self experimentation.
« on: May 28, 2015, 01:32:57 PM »

Hi all. Haven't posted for a bit, but I didnt' just suddenly become well ( more's the pity). I have been doing self experimentation which is always fun and interesting ( not).
I have found a lot of stuff that didn't work, some stuff that helped ( i think) and continue to plug away. :)  But for anyone in my stage of the game ( somewhere in the middle of perimenopause I'm guessing...maybe trending towards the end???) some of it may be helpful.

Estrogen: started estrogen in January ( initially 25ug) and felt immediate improvement in symptoms of panic/weepiness/energy/libido/skin/etc etc. Generally just felt better. Did not take progesterone at all in the first month as I wanted to know which hormone was causing which symptoms. Waited till month 2 to start the progesterone.
Felt great until around ovulation and then the drop triggered all kinds of fun symptoms so increased to 37.5ug ( MISTAKE ONE>>>wait the full three months before changing doses...we are all desperate to make it better NOW NOW NOW, but it doesn't work that way). BOO. Felt pretty darn good t 37.5ug but did notice some panic, and painful cramping in backs of legs. Some increased hair loss.

 Took prometrium 200mg vaginally from day 14- day 24. Had the first 'normal' period I've had in over a year. yay.
By month three doing pretty well mood wise, but still having weird stuff going on. Noticed some pretty severe cramping in the back of my legs around ovulation time. This went away post ovulation and weird horrible symptoms appeared with the drop in ovulation again ...increased to 50ug ( BAD BAD BAD)....Month three...shit hits fan.

I now know the symptoms of high estrogen...see if they sound familiar: anxiety and panic attacks, heart arrhythmia and shakiness, freezing to the point of wrapping in a blanket and shuddering in front of the fire, hair loss in handfuls, weeping and weeping, cold hands and feet, painful aching in the backs of my legs, headache constantly and horribly, internal vibrations like a cell phone on vibrate going off in my chest.  Hmmmm these symptoms sound a lot like what I though were low estrogen symptoms. NOPE. Pulled off the estrogen and felt immediately better within a day or two.
CONCLUSION: I have normal estrogen AT SOME TIMES, too much estrogen sometimes and not nearly enough at others. This sucks as it seems it will be nearly impossible to regulate the estrogen component of this until I drop to a new steady low. BUMMER. Currently at 12.5ug estrogen and plan to stay here for 3 months. lol.

PROGESTERONE: This is a big one for the perimenopausal bleeders among us. My period is 100% re-regulated and lighter, with a 5 day light to medium bleed every 28 days. This is a HUGE change from a blood bath at random times, sometimes every 2 weeks. Micronized progesterone day 12-24 will help regulate bleeding. I am taking it intravaginally and don't seem to have too much side effects except for massive food cravings and a complete and total loss of my shit when I stop taking it to have a period. PMS X 10. ah well. :( It may also contribute to the fact I'm sleeping better and it has anxiolytic properties. Taking it vaginally may prevent or reduce some of the symptoms in women with a sensitivity to progesterone ( like low energy, mood issues etc).

SUPPLEMENTS: Investigated black cohosh. I really wanted to try this as it acts like a selective estrogen regulator. Meaning it blocks to much estrogen sometimes, and acts like estrogen in other places. I have a weird ( and supposedly benign) liver issue so elected to not try this one. there have been sporadic reports of some pretty major liver complications with this one...but might be worth it for someone who's liver is a-one. hmmmm

THEANINE: I think this has helped. An amino acid and pretty neutral as far as safety goes. They use it to help with kids with ADD etc. I think it's useful for the anxiety filled women amongst us. I take 100mg morning and night. I have found a marked reduction in anxiety and improved sleep ( adrenaline keeps us awake often). It's in a lot of over the counter 'anxiety' formulas, but the safety margin is wide so why not try.

MELATONIN: Am fed up with not sleeping and do not want to be taking ambient or benedryl every night, both of which make me feel drugged out and weird in the morning with dry mouth. Started on 5mg at bedtime ( with the L-theanine) 2 weeks ago. Marked improvement in sleep length although not normal yet, definitely better. Reduced to 2.5mg last night and still slept. Think this is another useful one.

That's it for me. I highly recommend the utrogestan for the bleeders, and the melatonin/theanine combo for the anxious non sleepers amongst us.

My next experiment is DHEA... precursor to estrogen and testosterone. If I grow a beard and change my name to Harry I'll let you know.

Tara
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CLKD

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #1 on: May 28, 2015, 01:50:22 PM »

That reminds me >wave< that my feet always feed cold though DH tells me they are warm  ::)

Thanks for the up-date  ;)

You were missed!

How's the Vet work going?
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dogdoc

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #2 on: May 28, 2015, 02:46:14 PM »

Vet work is intereting but busy. Since im emergency only it makes for some interesting ( and often sad) times :)
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Maryjane

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #3 on: May 28, 2015, 03:20:25 PM »

When I read your post I thought you sound like my daughter........then it said your a vet.......she is also...a large animal one in New Zealand.
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Briony

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #4 on: May 28, 2015, 05:14:57 PM »

Great post Dogdoc - and good to hear from you too!

Interesting to read your symptoms of high oestrogen - freezing, hair loss, jittery, aches, weird calf pain (convinced it was a clot!) etc as I had all of these and was told it was due to low or fluctuating oestrogen rather than high oestrogen.  It's all so confusing! Certainly, since I have swapped to a CCP (much, much higher dose of oestrogen than the EVorel 50 patch I was on) the symptoms have massively diminished. Only problem is I now have some new symptoms (side effects?) - namely, itchiness and spotting. A part of me still wants to try the Mirena but it's so Marmite - people seem to love it or hate it. I'm also more cautious as I haven't had kids (the reason my GP said a specialist  would have to fit it rather than her ... that made me feel a bit faint!).

Want to post more but my cat is currently attacking the screen/keyboard so will catch up later,

B x

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20032003

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #5 on: May 28, 2015, 06:22:59 PM »

Interesting post :)! I have read symptoms of high and low estrogen and a lot of them, such as insomnia, seem to overlap. Confusing....
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dogdoc

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #6 on: May 28, 2015, 07:07:18 PM »

Overlap of high or low estrogen seems to be common. Headache for example I think is both, as is muscle pain.

For me those were definitely high estrogen symptoms...I tried it several times, different doses and got worse with increased estrogen, totally gone when removed. I think I'm still making enough of my own ( sometimes) that the 50 can ( sometimes) be too high lol.

I have debated the CCP sooooo long. Want desperately to try it, but developed migraines since starting this crap ( 2.5 years now) and they THINK I had aura once or twice ( they're not actually sure). CCP is apparently a big no no with migraine with aura...so here i am trying to figure out another way :(
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honeybun

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #7 on: May 28, 2015, 08:57:15 PM »

Great post dogdoc.

I'm one of the ones who reacts badly to too much oestrogen. Nausea, chills, internal jitters that feel as if my hands should be shaking.

I'm much further along the meno road at almost 55 having started at around 47 I think.

I'm on half a conti patch and I get reasonable symptom control. I would not up my dose for anything now as I hated the feelings I had on too much oestrogen.

It's such a delicate balance between too much and too little and one that few us get right.


Honeybun
X
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Suzi Q

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #8 on: May 29, 2015, 01:08:43 AM »

 :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D :D
Clever you x
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GeordieGirl

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #9 on: May 29, 2015, 01:31:14 PM »

Great post!

My introduction to menopause was a shelf full of books from the likes of Dr John Lee, Jonathan Wright etc, all strong fans of progesterone. As it took my surgery eons to actually get sorted on the HRT front, I started using a progesterone cream bought from Biovea.  It helped my sleeping, my pubes grew back (I'm hoping that means it'll liven up my hair too though no noticeable difference as yet) but best of all, the cysts I had in my breast have all disappeared (aspiration only cleared them so far and I could feel the lumps).  It does surprise me how little emphasis is put on progesterone by the NHS, it's only recommended for those with wombs so to prevent womb cancer, in fact it has a lot of other beneficial qualities.

I've since had BHRT prescribed so have switched to Utrogestan and now take oestrogen in the form of Estrogel but am not entirely sure if I've the right dose of Estrogel yet. The aching shoulders and neck have gone, I have a little more clarity (though think the progesterone was helping this too, but my nipples are like coat hooks and today my back feels a little greasy (curious as my skin's been fabulous recently).  It's only been a month on the Estrogel so I'm watching carefully.  I do think I need oestrogen as I was getting awful aching across my neck, shoulders and back,  but I'm wondering if it's just been a little too much (I'm using one pump a day, so a small amount).

I do take a DHEA supplement occasionally which probably isn't enough to do anything, I've held back from adopting it properly as I wanted to get everything else balanced first.

Because I've changed my diet quite radically over the last few months it's hard to really know what is a function of what (ie I have much more energy than I've had for a long time), but I'm pretty certain both the progesterone and oestrogen have made improvements.  As honeybun says, it's a delicate balance and quite an individual one too - I guess this is where we have to listen to our bodies.

Hope your self experimentation bears fruit for you  :)

GG x
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Briony

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #10 on: May 29, 2015, 01:41:02 PM »



I have debated the CCP sooooo long. Want desperately to try it, but developed migraines since starting this crap ( 2.5 years now) and they THINK I had aura once or twice ( they're not actually sure). CCP is apparently a big no no with migraine with aura...so here i am trying to figure out another way :(


I have Migraines with aura (though not regularly - three in a lifetime) and also a history of stroke in family (dad had life changing one at 50). However, having tried HRT with only a small improvement, my doctor agreed that the benefits of me trying a low dose CCP outweighed the risks. She would not, however, let me try anything other than Qlaira. She favoured this one as it has bio identical estrogen and is a lower dose. I was incredibly worried about the shift in estrogen within the monthly set of pills, but I can honestly say I don't notice anything other than tiredness and  itching on day 4 or 5. So far (touch wood) no migraine at all - whereas previously I always had one a few days before I came on.

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dogdoc

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #11 on: May 29, 2015, 08:47:29 PM »

Geogie girl...you're greasy skin might be secondary to the DHEA...it's converted into both estrogen and testosterone in the body ( depending on which pathway it decides to go down). One of the side effects is greasy skin and possibly acne.

Briony...glad to hear their still working for you.. I keep you in the back of my mind every time I think about CCP. Has it done anything for the other weird and wonderful symptoms of the perimenopause? I never got headaches until this stage of life ( ever), and the neurologist cant' tell me ( isn't sure) if I even have aura...so its no win. I'm still tempted though. Headaches have resolved a LOT for me over the last number of months...another hormonal swing I'm sure. Other symtpoms have cropped up to take their place though...insomnia, PVC's, food cravings and lethargy. Always with the lethargy. If I ever have any energy again I'm not even going to know what to do with it. :)
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CLKD

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #12 on: May 29, 2015, 10:41:32 PM »

Headaches can occur when the body is dehydrated and as I used to drink a lot in the week prior to a bleed maybe that's the cause of your headaches?
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dogdoc

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #13 on: May 30, 2015, 12:55:00 AM »

Ahhh drinking water. I wish that was the cause but no go. I drink plenty. These were very interesting headaches. Always right at the base of my skull and radiating pain behind my eyes. Got lovely visual wobbles with them. Fun. They seem to have mostly resolved. I hope that stage is passed.
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CLKD

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Re: updates on self experimentation.
« Reply #14 on: May 30, 2015, 02:27:01 PM »

Sure it was water  :-\  :whist:
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