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[bramble]

I have just had a conversation today with some elderly friends and we were talking about care homes - and particularly about paying for the care in them. I said it didn't bother me that my house may have to be sold to pay for my care - if I had the money so be it. They were of the opinion that why should they have saved for their old age and then have to pay for their care when others got it free if they had spent all their money. But what else are they going to spend their money on if not for care? People cannot be left to rot in their own homes and not be cared for, regardless of whether they have money or not. There will be even less people with savings in the years ahead the way the economy is going. By the time you are in your mid-late eighties, your children are past the point really of needing an inheritance.......or are they?

What do you think?

Bramble

[CLKD]

   - at last, someone else who agrees with me.  When AgeUK etc. bleat on about people having to sell their properties to fund care, well what is the property for  - we see it as part of our Pension.  To be sold as and when.  If people have had cruises etc. then they won't get the same level of care that those who have saved might obtain: i.e. someone in Social Care may have to share a room/fascilities whereas I expect/hope that my money will pay for en-suite accommodation.

What I object to is that there are different levels of 'care'.  So if someone goes into a retirement 'home' that doesn't have full nursing care for those that may require it, they have to move 'homes'  ……… at a time when they have aged, probably settled into their choice and have made friends with residents.

If parents want to give their children something then speaking to a Solicter or Finaincal Advisor to make a Trust Fund for later use and give them money now  ……..

[honeybun]

I don't have money to give my kids now. What I might be able to leave is a house and I really want them to have that. I think the trend will turn increasingly to care in the home....in fact it's really like that already.
There can be a good care package put in place and that is far far more cost effective than a care home. I would much rather do that and hope if I end up in a home I will have got to the point of nor caring.

I want to enjoy my older years and we have saved and budgeted for that but nothing else.

My hubby is older than me so I guess he would probably need care before me....does that mean I should sell our house to fund his care....if I didn't do that then would his care be of a lesser quality than mine.
He was a tax payer for forty years....does the state not have a duty of care to him.

It's so difficult and the whole scenario worries me.


Honeyb
X

[Dancinggirl]

I have just watched the very depressing programme on Channnel 4 about the decisions the NHS has to make about how funds are used and it highlighted the problems of care for those with dementia. A couple were refused the support of an Admiral Nurse which would cost only £375 per year - this nurse could offer significant help to a couple where the wife was alone in caring for her husband with dementia.
I know that full time care in your home is vastly more expensive than a care home and I am certainly realistic - I would not want to have my husband or children compromising their lives to keep me in my home as I've seen and experienced what is involved.
The system is not fair  - my parents-in-law are a classic example; my father-in-law was selfish and irresponsible and constantly getting into debt, so my mother-in-law got herself a job to support her children and divorced her husband. She worked and saved beyond her pensionable age and then most of her savings and money from her flat went on her care; my father-in-law hadn't saved anything and all his care home fees were paid for by the state.  I feel we should all accept that we need to pay an awful lot more into the NHS and for longer if we want the cradle to grave care we want.
Dementia frightens me more than anything else and I really hope we will be allowed to do an end of life plan that states we should be allowed to die with dignity and not dwindle slowly - after all nobody knows whether someone is in pain or distress with this condition.
What my poor mother-in-law went through was horrible and I found it really tough trying to help her keep her dignity - she was a very private and dignified person and the lack of help and support from the doctors was shocking.  WE got her into a very good care home in the end and they looked after her really well - she lived a lot longer than expected but I wish I could say she had 'quality of life' in those care home years as I fear she was very distressed.
Like many parents we are still helping our children financially so not in a position to save very much - we do have pensions but we intend  and need to work for as long as possible.  I really don't want our hard earned money wasted on caring for us as we slowly dwindle.  DG x

[littleminnie]

I knew a couple who spent all their lives go on cruises and lots of other fancy holidays. Meals out all the time, etc etc. they lived I a rented house. He died, she moved into a council flat and eventually ended up in a care home. She had no money so it was all payed for by the state.
I also know another couple who had their own home, he died and she is still in the house.  But if she ends up in a home, the house will be sold to pay for her care. Anything she wanted to leave to her children will be gone.
Doesn't seem fair to me.

[Ju Ju]

My parents would love to leave their house, etc to me, but as I have discussed with them they will probably need to use their assets for their own care.

My mum has been in hospital for the last few days. Initially we thought this was it. She is 87 and frail. But she has improved considerably and will be discharged once a temporary 6 week FREE care package is put in place. During this time, we can assess what ongoing care she needs, which will have to be funded by my parents. I am very grateful for the help and support she will get initially. What would happened without this help? Probably I would have had no choice, but to go and care for her, compromising my own health and well being. As it is I am exhausted travelling back and forth to visit and support my Dad.

I can see all the arguments. In an ideal world, top quality care would be provided free of charge, but this is the real world. Unfortunately, there is no choice but to use people's assets. Yes it's not fair that people like my parents, who have always been careful with money will pay, while others who haven't, won't, but who said this world was meant to be fair? I'm just grateful for the care and support my Mum is receiving now.

[Joyce]

We had to sell my mum's home to pay for her care home.  My brother got POA over her finances early on, so we could sell her house.  Would have broken her heart if she'd fully understood, Alzheimer's was progressing fast at that stage.

My mum was initially put into care home for respite care as brother & I were both out of the country at the same time, but it became apparent that she wasn't able to go home & look after herself.

In the case of my MIL she ended up in hospital after a stroke. She was then transferred to a free care home to recuperate, she stayed there until she ended up in a geriatric ward at the hospital. Horrid place!

Nowadays I think they prefer folk to stay at home with care packages for as long as is possible. Problem with that is there can be a lack of consistency. Different carers, different days which can cause confusion. There's a lot of pressure on their family to carry on as long as is possible.

[Ju Ju]

Stressful times.

[CLKD]

What happens though when, like my Uncle and Aunt, those in need refuse to have anyone 'in' to help  because 'our son and daughter will care for us' …… it can't be insisted upon. 

Also, by selling the property one can provide a better standard of 'care' than what Social Services will provide.  One does not have to sell if a family member is reliant on living in the property, i.e. other dependants such as wife/children/diabled children.  I don't know at which point the property is snatched back though ………. it does depend upon which County one lives in too as to how much free care is available.

Which makes it difficult to get a handle on what we *are* entitled to receive which is why this issue should be a cross-Party issue and not an Election issue!  It won't go away. 

[Dancinggirl]

Absolutely CKLD - it's high time the whole health and social care issue was taken out of the political arena and a cross section of experts including leading businessmen, doctors and nurses all decided how to take things forward.  The NHS and Social care is not joined up - services vary across the country - things are really not efficient and it is easy to see how money gets wasted. 
My poor mother-in-law had to repeat all the same tests and assessments when she went into the care home as it was in a different borough/health authority - what a waste of money and very distressing for her!!!   
DG x

[CLKD]

'They' should listen to relatives too.  AgeUK tried to take on the Government in the early 2000s, I had e-mails by the dozen about my Dad's 'care' ……

[clio]

A very interesting subject

I watch alot of these benefit programmes and recently I found myself asking myself a question??

If I was unable to to do the job im employed to do what would happen??

E.g im on the sick with a broken leg, I need my legs to work to do my job, if I couldnt and had to leave or dismissed on medical grounds how do I pay my morgage??  jobseekers and ssp would not cover my mortgage and bills so what would happen??

If I was in rented accommodation I could claim for housing benefit but what if you owned your house??

A different topic to care home payments but a similar argument dont you think??

[Dancinggirl]

We've had to sell our house and downsize 3 times due to financial problems - one of those times was because I had to give up my job to look after my mother-in-law because of her dementia - she wouldn't let social services do anything and when I could longer cope she had to go into a home - by then we were in so much debt we had to move.  The last house move we did turned out to be very positive but it has been highly stressful.  DG x

[Morwenna]

I live on my own and have a mortgage. I simply wouldn't be able to 'sell up' and stop working in order to care for my Dad. He's fairly independent right now but due to have quite major surgery in the near future. I would have no idea who to turn to if he needed long term care. It's such a worry.....   

[CLKD]

   Dancing Girl - moving because we have to against what we want to must be sad and stressful
Morwenna - have you talked to your Dad about your worries - he may have worries and/or answers 

If 1 thinks 1 is likely to be in arrears with mortgage re-payments it's better to talk to the lender sooner rather than later as there are ways of extending payments