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Author Topic: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?  (Read 21040 times)

Joyce

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #15 on: February 04, 2015, 06:34:02 PM »

I have been reminded that I suffered with anxiety as a child, I'm talking 7/8 years of age. In my case my father had just died, I was bullied at school & my mum not understanding what was going on outside her own grief, thrashed me almost on a daily basis because I didn't want to go to school.  It was my stomach which reacted back then, often sick. In my teenage years my mum caused me to develop OCD tendencies. Felt like I got blamed needlessly. Maybe it was her hormones as she was going through the change then.

Roll on nowadays & my anxiety levels have increased gradually over last 18 months - 2 years or so. My stomach plays up now too, though it's the runs instead. Citalopram has thankfully settled that, though I still get a churning tum sometimes.

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bev567901

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #16 on: February 04, 2015, 06:45:53 PM »

I think hormones put us out of kilter & cause anxiety. It gets worse as no GP seems to agree so we feel more poorly & then the anxiety causes more anxiety. I think the good strong points in our lives are when our hormones have been better balanced. Little things come back to the surface to niggle us & get blown out of proportion & we don't cope so well when we are unbalanced. I'm pretty sure of this & I have concluded  that my stronger 2 weeks of the month now are when I'm on one sort of HRT patch but I have always held this opinion since my mid 20's. I wish they would do more research as I am sure lots of people suffer without even realising it. I have to remind my daughter all the time, it is so easy to right it off as something else. Bee xx
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Dancinggirl

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #17 on: February 04, 2015, 07:01:39 PM »

Anxiety, stress and depression are complex issues and there must be links with hormones, life events and various other factors.  I certainly suffered terrible anxiety after my daughter was born as my piano teacher had experienced a still birth - I was in my teens at the time & it really upset me.  My mother wouldn't let me buy anything for the baby till after the birth and I was terrified my baby would die. I simply couldn't sleep for weeks after the birth. Was I suffering from post natal depression or just overly anxious due to past experience - probably a bit of both.  When I had my son I managed much better and enjoyed him far more because I was far less anxious.
My older sister has Crohns and my younger sister had Ulcerative Colitis - similar problems but in different parts of the digestive tract. There is clearly a genetic link and I know for a long time it was deemed a young persons illness and it was thought that a person would 'grow out of it'! Of course they now realise it will appear at any stage in life.  It does seem to emerge in the teenage years which logically would point to a link with hormones but also all the pressures of teenage life. We hear of so many women developing Crohns and IBS in middle age which again logically would point to hormonal and life stress issues all playing a part.  There have been quite a lot of posts on MM by women who suffer from digestive problems of all kinds, even nausea, who find that HRT alleviates or reduces these problems. I haven't actually been diagnosed with Crohns or colitis but I am very prone to diarrhoea so if I had investigations I wouldn't be at all surprised to learn I did have it or at least had IBS.  Extreme stress or traumatic experiences can and do have enormous effects of our bodies and I'm sure throw the balance off in all sorts of ways.
I think the effect of the onset of menopause on the way we think, feel, dream and react to normal life events can be quite dramatic. Why do I get such horrible vivid nightmares when not on HRT???? To an extent that I am frightened to go to sleep!!!
In the past it wasn't unusual for women to be put into an asylum at the time of their menopause. I certainly find I cope much better with stress when on HRT.
During my time out from HRT I started doing Mindful Meditation which I continue to do and I think this is a very good way of controlling anxiety - however this takes time and time is something many women at this stage in their lives have very little of.
Too many GPs dish out ADS/SRRIs instead of considering an hormonal problem when women hit their 40s and 50s - this needs to change.  DG x
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honeybun

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #18 on: February 04, 2015, 07:45:20 PM »

So not so fine after all. I think that events from the past impact on the present....may take months /years but it catches up eventually.

Is it events in life or a pre disposition to anxiety.

All I know is it shrinks your world in a way I could never believe.


Honeyb
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« Last Edit: February 04, 2015, 07:47:27 PM by honeybun »
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CLKD

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #19 on: February 04, 2015, 08:00:30 PM »

I agree - I can worry in my head but anxiety is in the gut. Nausea etc..

Then I start to worry in my head that the gut feelings will never go away then despair sets in  :'(
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Joyce

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #20 on: February 04, 2015, 10:35:58 PM »

Very true CLKD.  Vicious circle isn't it?
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bev567901

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #21 on: February 05, 2015, 05:58:46 PM »

Yep it's in my gut too starts off as nausea then the other end then the shaking. My husbands body reacts totally different & he gets migraines. Is it because I am scared of being sick? It's so complicated. No matter what our GPs agree on we know we have similar experiences & I for one think we do pretty darn well all things considered. Bee x
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CLKD

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #22 on: February 05, 2015, 06:00:09 PM »

Yep Bev - the fear is instant with me  :'(

'vicious' about covers it
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jedigirl

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #23 on: February 05, 2015, 06:13:30 PM »

honeybun,
I have wondered whether stress in the past affects you in later life.
My lovely Daddy died when i was just 6 from Hodgkins Lymphoma leaving my Mum with four children and we were obviously devastated. My Mum soon married again, probably for the security. My Stepdad turned out to be an alcoholic wife beater and we often heard him hitting her and felt useless when we couldn't protect her enough. Thankfully Mum kicked him out and met a lovely guy who my kids considered their Grandad. He died of Hodgkins too five years ago. I realise that this is life, many people have worse stories. I have always thought of myself as a coper but lately can't cope with stresses that are nothing, compared to the past. Everything seems too big, too worrying. I think I've reached my coping capacity!
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CLKD

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #24 on: February 05, 2015, 07:20:11 PM »

We can shut our emotions away at the time but eventually they will 'out'. 
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honeybun

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #25 on: February 05, 2015, 07:45:56 PM »

That's exactly it CLKD. It never goes away and meets you sometime in the future.


Honeyb
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thorntrees

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #26 on: February 05, 2015, 08:24:20 PM »

I agree with you both. I had Hodgkin's lymphoma and 9 months of chemo. Just as  I got the all clear my Mum had a massive stroke and died 6 weeks later. The following year our youngest daughter went out to work in Canada. At the time I seemed to cope quite well but gradually over the last couple of years anxiety began to creep in along with menopause symptoms and eventually I agreed to see a counsellor and try a low dose of AD. It has taken me some time to come to terms with the fact that the stress and the emotions of past events had taken their toll and I needed help to try to sort things out. Now I am much kinder to myself, don't take on so many things and try to realise I can't solve everyone else's problems - I don't always succeed but I try!! I think we all probably cope better than we think we do but it does come at a price,sometimes in a very physical way.
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BrightLight

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #27 on: February 05, 2015, 09:29:59 PM »

Honorsmum - this is precisely the jigsaw puzzle I have been wrestling with and after doubting myself, I feel confident I have all of this going on.  Adrenal stress + 'failing' hormonal reserves = up and down imbalance = more stress response.

I don't have an easy way to explain the hormonal cascade but perimenopause can be viewed as an imbalance in the hypothalamic pituitary adrenal axis, or HPA axis for short.  This is the central pathway for all hormones in the body.  So yes, it's really real that thyroid, adrenals and reproductive systems are all involved.

The whole thing works on a feedback system which is why, in my opinion our thoughts and emotions do play a big part.  If our systems are trying to balance as estrogen and progesterone do their dance of varying levels, the system will try to compensate. The whole metabolic balance will fail and a 'symptom' could appear.

The hypothalamus which governs which hormones are secreted etc is very sensitive to brain activity (thoughts/emotions) and also the feedback from the rest of the system - basically it's really easy to get thrown off balance as the system stops communicating efficiently.

Where anxiety comes in is that this jumble genuinely does create an adrenal response - cortisol is released and the fight or flight response activated, progesterone is used to make cortisol which reduces progesterone and so it goes on around the body........  Our minds can perceive a threat when this cortisol is released and we 'follow' it and increase the response and deplete the system further. Some women might not respond or even notice this shift - some won't have fluctuating hormones enough to trigger the rest of the system to get out of balance. 

If you enter perimenopause with some level of adrenal stress, which could be diet related, old emotional wounds, a generally busy life, you have depleted reserves, even if you haven't experienced symptoms before perimenopause - I hope that makes sense.

As well as trying to balance our hormones I guess the reactions to the symptoms need to be managed as well - I know for myself that I have got caught in 'feeding' the sense of imbalance that can manifest as many odd symptoms or strange things that seem completely 'unusual' for me, so my curiosity followed as to what was 'wrong' and then bang an adrenalin rush and the message from the brain 'something is wrong' is affirmed. A vicious cycle is created.

Most of this is an automatic response and I guess that's why meditation, mindfullness, breathing and awareness that there is nothing wrong really helps.  Detachment.......  Doctors don't explain this and whenever I have tried to check whether this is a 'correct' assumption of what my body is doing I get a funny look ;)

For me, knowing what my body is doing has helped, even if I only have a basic understanding.  It means I can acknowledge my body is desperately trying to balance and actually failing to do so at times.  The only thing to do is keep trying to nudge it back to balance for comfort - food, lifestyle, hormones etc until finally the hormones stop going crazy.  Seen in this way the process is entirely natural and quite amazing - though the symptoms are genuinely a sign of misfiring and can mimic thryoid disease etc and I guess if thyroid or adrenal issues were in the background previously they can get worse.

It isn't any wonder some of us think we have a thyroid problem or some other issue.




Here is a random page from a google search that goes someway to what I think you are curious about Honorsmum

http://www.theperimenopauseblog.com/natural-therapies-for-menopause-product-giveaway/
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honorsmum

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #28 on: February 06, 2015, 08:32:05 AM »

Thank you so much for your explanation, Bright Light - it makes complete sense when put like that. I just knew there had to be a reason more scientific than coincidence (or being neurotic!) why women of a certain age start to suffer from thyroid problems and anxiety issues.
Like you, I feel I have had some adrenal fatigue issues which have either collided with age-related hormonal changes (ie peri), or caused them (non-peri hormonal imbalance).
A friend who is 50 has recently been diagnosed with Hashimoto' s thyroiditis, and subsequently discovered that her adrenals, in her words, "are shot." This all followed her putting her back out and having to be off work - obviously the tipping point that was the straw that broke the camel's back.
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BrightLight

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Re: hormones and anxiety - chicken and egg?
« Reply #29 on: February 06, 2015, 04:41:40 PM »

You are welcome, it's nice to be able to share my thoughts and conclusions for my own situation and also the bigger picture.  Yes, we do fall vulnerable to thyroid and autoimmune issues as we age - it must be the 'communication' systems going wrong and attempting a fix..........

Your poor friend having all that going on.  I am definately at the tipping point and I am certain my taxed adrenals have contributed to an earlier onset menopause.  After freaking out for a week after my doctor threw the curve ball of postmenopausal FSH, HRT etc etc I am back to supporting myself in the ways I know how.

It seems ironic that we spend years getting to know ourselves, our quirks and needs only to be thrown into a situation that truely is beyond our control to balance in the ways we have in the past. 

How did you find the refelxology?  I am a trained Shiatsu practitioner (not working right now) but I have accupuncture regularly to keep me in balance and the fact that it wasn't lasting inbetween treatments in the past year was what led me to think something else was wrong.  I can get into balance quite easily and then woooosh it's off - that is the hormonal shifts I think, that are not controllable.

I am saying all this because I have a new tack - I am going to focus on my baseline balance, the one that I know I can do and always will and try and detach a bit from the changes in my body and the rushes of hormonal change, that are just going to do their thing.   Let's see how I get on ;)
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