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[BrightLight]

Hello, I am feeling a bit freaked out again and isolated.  It's been just over a week since I was told I had gone through menopause, followed by the first missed period ever, night sweats and insomnia that I have never had before, feeling like the energy has been drained out of me, feeling weak and not robust.  My head being in a mess - one minute relieved that this marker signals the end of my ambivalence around not having children and then realising it certainly doesnt and I feel more of a freak than I did.  Old, purposeless and lost - I was actually feeling a little bit of that before but now I feel my body is now on it's downward slope and needs my attention and I feel confused.

So............ I have read a lot here and some things relate to where I am at, the signs of perimenopause for instance but not really as lots of my symptoms that I think were related last year have passed - I feel something is different.  New symptoms are the night sweats and adrenalin rushes and a renewed sense of 'slowness' that's all I can describe it as, a flat, energyless feeling.

I am guessing that if my ovaries did indeed 'fail' just like that (I tend to think they did) my body will be recovering (?) 

I have joined the Daisy network for Premature Ovarian Failure and none of the posts on the forum seem to link to my experience - most are younger and are having fertility treatment or some sort of cycles or if not they might do.  Ovarian Failure means you can begin cycling again sometimes (?)

I know this post is all over the place, but I genuinely can't understand anything clearly of where I am at and what to expect?  Will my hormones continue to operate and as per all info if I go a year without periods then that is postmenopause.  Do symptoms carry on?  Why would they carry on if I wasn't ovulating or ovaries have 'failed'.  It feels to me like my whole system has calmed down and there are only low levels of all hormones, though of course I can't be sure, but if you are no longer ovulating and bleeding, then I presume the symptoms of imbalanced hormones will subside.

I read that post menopause can show MORE symptoms with increased flushing etc  Do you think something more is around the corner?  So confused 

[honorsmum]

It sounds as though your GP was less than helpful with his comment about premature ovarian failure. From what I can gather, with my very limited knowledge, that sounds like a red herring - you say that you are able to trace your symptoms back over the last 2 years, which makes it sound like you've been going through perimenopause and are now moving towards being menopausal. Missed period, new symptoms - sounds like the next step towards menopause.

I can only say that I've no idea I am on that path - I haven't missed any periods, but I am getting the fatigue, insomnia, night time palpitations and adrenaline rushes, sweats, mood swings, blood sugar issues, spots, changing hair, skin and nails, changing cycle lengths etc.

Menopause seems to be one of those things that can only be said to have happened in hindsight, ie after 12 months without a period. Seemingly, until then, anything and everything goes, symptoms wise.

[Kathleen]

Hello BrightLight and sorry to hear that you are suffering.

You are clearly confused and I'm not surprised. I wonder if you would consider emailing Dr Curry on this site as I'm sure she will be able to help you. I understand it costs £25 and although I've never done this myself other ladies have and found her replies very useful.

Whatever you decide to do I wish you well and sending hugs.

K.

[BrightLight]

Honorsmum - thanks, yes I think I have had symptoms, although not typical and the Ovarian Failure aspect has confused me.  The Dr was clear that my FSH levels of +80 suggested menopause as it takes some time to reach these levels (?)  I think I am going to have to ignore what he has said and live in the unknown. 

Kathleen, yes I am confused.  I feel a bit foolish for not expecting this, I knew that I haven't been balanced for a year, skin changes etc and even though the Dr said I was too young for menopause I put it down to that in some ways, thinking it was the start of things that might take a few years.  I had sudden pains during my last period and spotting and then nothing.......

Thank you for the suggestion to email, I will keep that in mind.  I have a Dr's appointment on Tuesday with a new doctor who might help me get my head around all this. 

Just tried to have a conversation with my partner about what this means to me and although he is understanding, he is not understanding of the issues of childlessness it has brought up.  We need to resolve and talk about this aspect if I am to move through this with as much grace as I can muster - it was his 'lack' of definate interest and resolve that resulted in drifting past the child issue (as well as some bereavements) and I never felt we reached a clear understanding.  Oh dear, what a mess................I think I need to go and listen to music for a while or dance around a bit to distract

[BrightLight]

This is all about choice for me - that's the way to feel empowered again and quite frankly the last few years have felt slightly overwhelming for one reason or another and I am desperate to 'get a handle' on things and make positive choices. 

I am sure I am overthinking the why's and wherefores

[Hurdity]

Hi again BrightLight

I echo what the others have said and so sorry to hear you are suffering and it's confusing at first and especially with the turmoil of hormones as well, and coming to terms with not having children - for that alone you have my deepest sympathies (empathy?) - as I know I would have felt the same in your position.

I agree with honorsmum that it sounds as though your GP hasn't helped the situation, by telling you you have gone through menopause. It is much more likely that you haven't got there yet! I urge you to read as much as you can about menopause and peri-menopause form the information on this site. From what you have said and as honorsmum says - you have been peri-menopausal to your knowledge for at least 2 years.

Just because you miss a period and have one very high FSH level does not mean your ovaries have suddenly failed. This would be very unusual. Many women like you go through several years of symptoms before even starting to miss periods. Then they become irregular until you finally have the last period - which you won't know until 12 months have past (unless you start HRT like I did - in which case you guess at when you're post-menopausal). It is possible that they have packed up ( in terms of ovulation) now but it is unlikely and as I said, they have probably been struggling for some time ( ie re oestrogen levels) even if you've managed to ovulate.

Of course I can't say what will happen with you but I strongly suspect you will have other periods and your hormones will continue to fluctuate until you finally reach menopause - but I might be wrong.

In terms of what your hormones do following the last period - oestrogen doesn't just disappear all at once. It continues to decline quite sharply (or you could say gradually in terms of how much you will notice it) over the next two years until it levels out at the level it will stay.

There is every variation in how women experience symptoms - from those who get hot flushes as soon as oestrogen levels start to drop even before the first missed period - to women who barely notice anything at all throughout the whole process and beyond - into post-menopause - and all stages in between.

Some women never experience flushes and sweats, others just through the time when hormones are fluctuating and they die down once menopause is reached eg at the two year point, but for others they might go on for ten years as you may well read on here - you won't know which you are and you don't want to do the experiment on yourself!!!

So the most extreme hormone fluctuations - which cause intermittent symptoms ( loads of them!) occur throughout peri-menopause, but as oestrogen levels decline permanently there are other long term symptoms (of oestrogen deficiency) which some women only begin to experience (or they worsen)  after the 2 year drop.

One such symptom is vaginal atrophy which some lucky women do not experience at all, and others do not begin to notice until two years post-meno. Other intangible (ie not obviously apparent early on) effects of oestrogen deficiency include for example osteoporosis because oestrogen is responsible for keeping our bones strong and healthy.

I hope this ramble is of some help to you - the more you read the more you will understand.

You may be one of the unusual women who have regular periods with a few minor symptoms and then your periods stop just like that - but I must stress that this is more unusual!

Hurdity x

[honorsmum]

Could it be that your doctor uses the word "menopause" as a catch-all term, that covers perimenopause as well as menopause? Reading around, one blood test can't diagnose menopause while you're still having periods, and depending on when it was taken, the result could vary by up to 30.
Also, GP s seem to have very limited expertise in the peri/meno, mostly, so maybe he just doesn't know exactly what he's talking about?

Hopefully, the private GP will be more helpful - is he/she knowledgeable about women's health?

Your partner sounds similar to how my husband was on the subject of children. I could never get him to commit to saying he wanted them or he didn't - he just said he didn't know, which is not something you can work with as a woman, if you do want children because you can't be a bit pregnant!
Of course, you're now in a very different situation and I'm guessing your partner is unable to grasp the concept of what you feel you've lost - maybe it would help to talk to a counsellor?

[BrightLight]

Gosh, Hurdity and Honorsmum you are so thoughtful and kind.

I really do think I am one of the un-usual ones, I only say this because I think I have signs of postmenopausal oestrogen deficiency.  I can barely write this because it has freaked me out so much, but in the last week I have noticed I have zero cervical mucus and there is dryness, my breasts have lost ALL fibrous tissue.  These things may have been happening to some degree over the last couple of months, I thought I was imagining it.  The dryness has gone away for now.  I have also lost the fat on my face to some degree, but this has been happening over the last year. Before last year I had none of these symptoms.

I just found an article on a Fertility website that explains that sometimes the ovaries stop responsing to FSH and LH and don't release eggs or estrogen, rarely this can reverse.  I really hope the new Dr can help with reassuring me about these changes as I am certain they are signs of no estrogen............for now or forever, I accept that there is nothing definate.  I really have been a bit freaked out though. 

Honorsmum - thank you for sharing the situation with your husband, yes you can't really be a bit pregnant   I do have a counsellor, partly because of the no children issue, so she is being very helpful as I negotiate all this.


The private GP seemed to know what she was talking about on the phone, she says I need to be tested for prolactin levels incase the pituatry gland is involved for some reason and talked about HRT and other strategies we can use to get my health on an even keel.  I also talked a little about the emotional impact this is having and how a basic lesson in biology would be helpful to me.  If the ovaries have stopped responding for some reason, it's quite hard not to know why, but if this is the case they say there is often no clear explanation - sometimes it is autoimmune which is why they check thyroid.

[honorsmum]

The private GP sounds proactive, at least, which will be reassuring to you.
I think once you gave a clear picture of what is going on and a plan of action to tackle the physical symptoms, you will be in a better place to deal with the emotional side with your counsellor.

I should have said, we eventually went on to have 2 children but it was a very rocky time in our marriage, with my biological clock ticking loudly but my husband undecided.

[Dancinggirl]

Brightlight
I started getting peri menopausal symptoms in my mid 30s - I'm afraid premature ovarian failure is more common than we think.  Unfortunately many GPs are simply not up to speed about how to treat this and you need some speciaist advice to prevent the long term health problems Hurdity has highlighted.
Whether you get menopause symptoms or not I would strongly recommend you have HRT unless you have health issues that prevent this.
It is a confusing time but at least these days the hormones that are lacking can be replaced through HRT and this will carry you forward to a healthy future. 
Coming to terms with the possibility of not having children is another matter that should be addressed by a specialist.  Ask for the relevant referrals so you have a full picture  of the right way to move forward.   Keep posting. DG x

[BrightLight]

The private GP sounds proactive, at least, which will be reassuring to you.
I think once you gave a clear picture of what is going on and a plan of action to tackle the physical symptoms, you will be in a better place to deal with the emotional side with your counsellor.

I should have said, we eventually went on to have 2 children but it was a very rocky time in our marriage, with my biological clock ticking loudly but my husband undecided.

Thank you, it is proving easy to forget my plan of action and take it step by step when I really just wish all of this would go away    

[BrightLight]

Brightlight
I started getting peri menopausal symptoms in my mid 30s - I'm afraid premature ovarian failure is more common than we think.  Unfortunately many GPs are simply not up to speed about how to treat this and you need some speciaist advice to prevent the long term health problems Hurdity has highlighted.
Whether you get menopause symptoms or not I would strongly recommend you have HRT unless you have health issues that prevent this.
It is a confusing time but at least these days the hormones that are lacking can be replaced through HRT and this will carry you forward to a healthy future. 
Coming to terms with the possibility of not having children is another matter that should be addressed by a specialist.  Ask for the relevant referrals so you have a full picture  of the right way to move forward.   Keep posting. DG x

Thank you. How right you are with the comment about GP's being in the dark about things - did I mention the female GP I went to see after the phone call said, ah well take a look at the NHS website and look up menopause!

I have booked the repeat blood test at my regular GP's as advised and to then talk about HRT, that is all they offered and werent interested in my symptoms.  Meanwhile I am seeing a private GP tomorrow who is also a wholistic doctor, I recognise everyone sees their health differently and I am someone that sees my health in a wider perspective and I can tell that my thyroid and adrenal function is impaired - of course it is, because it is part of the same system in the body. 

I am saying this because I hope to create a package to support the whole lot and interested in bio-identical hormones for the reason that if properly prescribed they will be made up to the levels your body needs.  The thought of going back and forth to my regular GP for monitoring fills me with anxiety, I just know they won't take account of my emotional health or anything else. My current counsellor is private, I went through the NHS last year and they deemed me not unwell enough for referral as such - I had some useful CBT and was advised I needed to find a private therapist, which is fine and I did.

 I am fearful of medication, I only took Birth Control pill once, in my early 20's and was sick and depressed.  I haven't had anti-biotics for 20 years or neurofen - it's not because I don't value medicine, I do, I am just very sensitive and have so far managed to avoid medication.  It's scary to me, but I will make sensible choices. If there are no other ways to protect my bones etc I will use HRT - been reading that they are now not sure about heart protection.  To be honest it's all trial and error in my opinion, we just need to find the right balance for ourselves with all that is on offer.  I even react to the dentist anaesthetic and he only uses a minute amount.

[peegeetip]

Why Bio-identical hormones?

http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/perimeno.php
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/postmeno.php

All of the current HRT's except the PREMIQUE or PREMPAK have bio-identical estrogen hormones.

So you can save your money with normal HRT for a start.

The prog part is also available with UTROGESTAN which is supposed to be the closest to our own.

Its been more an American thing when they have dispensing chemists who will formulate the HRT in a customised way.
The trouble with the so called BIO-ID items is that they are not controlled in the same way as HRT you see on the above MM pages.
There has been problems in the past in the way BIO-IDENTS are prepared and their content.

The following link gives good background to what I've mentioned above and might save you this part of the road that has less signs than you'd like.

http://www.studd.co.uk/bioidentical_hormones.php

 

[BrightLight]

Hi Peegeetip  I can't begin to get my head around those options - I am hoping my GP will tell me the one he suggests and the Private GP will give me information on the biodenticals.

It's my understanding that neither are 'natural' as they both are chemically produced.  My interest in biodenticals is that they do base the compound on ingredients from plants but the main interest I have is that they are prescribed and made to your own requirements.  The downside I suppose is that these are not regulated, they can't be because they are made for each person.  I will gather information and see.

I can well believe that there is a lot of money to be made in this industry and that the approved products supplied through the NHS are standardised and therefore you avoid any risk in terms of quality etc  With the biodenticals I think people could sell these without really prescribing them properly,  with just a saliva test for example.  It seems logical to me that if blood tests were taken to ascertain your hormone levels and then re-checked etc you will get a prescription closest to your bodies needs as possible.

Perhaps I am being a little idealistic ? I'll soon find out

[Dancinggirl]

Hi Brightlight
Peegeetip, Hurdity and others has given you very good feedback.
I really understand your wish to feel in control of this process but I'm afraid it is a matter of trial and error.  I believe your first priority is to see a gynaecologist to get a proper assessment of where you are in your menopause and discuss your options in regards to fertility.

I really think you are over thinking this.  What many of us are trying to tell you is be careful of alternative therapists/doctors who claim they have a more natural way to treat the menopause - you point out yourself there is a lot of money to be made from unscrupulous people. This area of medicine has been extensively researched and research is still being carried out by the leading doctors and scientist around the world. Many drugs are derived from plants and other natural sources and most HRTs, as has been pointed out, contain oestrogen that is bio identical.  I'm not sure what you mean by 'chemically produced' as one could describe everything in this way. The non prescribed treatments that contain any type of hormone could potentially have more risk factors as they are not carefully produced and controlled.

Please don't expect your GP to know what is the best HRT to recommend - sadly many of them are very out of date, most of us using the closest natural HRT regime of Oestrogen in patch or gel form with Utrogestan for progesterone, have had to go to a private gynae to get this prescribed as it is not widely known about.  Many GPs will simply give the old fashioned HRTs like Prempak which is cheap and well known. The information on this site is one of the best for understanding what is available and the feed back you get from all us ladies will hopefully help you in this journey. 

Not all ladies do well on the bio identical HRTs types - some women actually prefer some of the other preparations.  Femoston is very popular as it has got bio identical oestrogen and the progesterone is close to bio-identical and many women find they actually feel better when taking the oestrogen/progesterone phase in Femoston  - it can be the progesterone phase that is the problematic time on many other HRT types.  Many women find they feel sedated on Utrogstan which is the closest progesterone to our own.

The rule of thumb is to start on a low dose and increase until you feel you have your symptoms under control.  Blood tests are notoriously unreliable, particularly through the peri stage as our own hormones will be fluctuating. Though you have missed a period you may find you have an erratic cycle for some time as Hurdity pointed out.  2 years after your final natural period, it is possible to find the best dosage but even then, as we get older, it is wise to be on the lowest dosage possible.
AS to what your requirement will be in regards to dosage etc. - well this will change over the years and you would need to go to a private gynaecologist to get the kind of tailoring that you want to achieve. Most of us discover the right dose ourselves - blood tests won't necessarily help with this. I personally would not go to a private GP for this type of treatment I would spend my money on a gynaecologist who specialises in treating menopause.
Do keep us posted about your progress.  DG xxx