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[GypsyRoseLee]

Last month was an especially bad month for me. My PMS failed to leave when my period started, so I just don't think my oestrogen level rose enough to make me ovulate? I didn't have the usual physical symptoms of ovulation and I had zero libido. When I 'should' have ovulated I experienced very nasty anxiety/depression for 2-3 days (which completely ruined several Xmas parties for me).

PMS got worse. My low mood intensified and culminated in 4-5 days of total emotional numbness. Just really horrible. Felt totally cut off and detached from any emotion whatsoever. Spend too long in that state and life doesn't seem worth living 

Then in the space of an hour or so, I felt the horrible numbness start to lift and then my period started.

Anyone else experienced similar when they have a month where they don't actually ovulate (but still have a light bleed)? Have you noticed your symptoms are much worse?

[CLKD]

Oh how awful!  I was never aware when my body ovulated.  I did have severe PMS in my 30s though and was advised to eat every 3 hours throughout 24 and throughout the month!  So perhaps looking at your diet and see how you can spread it through 24 hours ……. the idea is not to eat more !

[Millykin]

I couldn't tell if I ovulate or not but I can relate to that numb detached who gives a ?@&/ feeling. I have had a couple of times over past 2 yrs here I sit in a world of my own not in the least bit interested in anything or anyone around me, my family are so patient with me really feel for them sometimes, and my hubby he is so outgoing full of laughs and he try's so hard and half the time I just stare right through him. It will get better
X

[Hurdity]

I don't think you would bleed if you didn't ovulate - the empty egg follicle after ovulation produces the progesterone which changes the uterus lining from proliferative (growing - which the oestrogen stimulates it to do) to secretory (changes the structure so as to be ready for implantation of fertilised egg). If there is no fertilisation or implantation the follicle runs out of progesterone and the falling level of this hormone triggers the bleed as the lining isn't needed.

However in peri-menopause the levels of hormones fluctuate so much that it's difficult to tell what's going on really as sudden surges and falls in both hormones can give rise to symptoms. Cycles where you don't ovulate are called anovulatory cycles and there isn't a bleed that month. The next month if ovulation occurs - the bleed is much heavier. I think Dr Currie talks about this in that article on peri-menopause - I think I put a link to it in one of my previous posts?

If you only had a light bleed, one explanation is that your oestrogen levels are much lower ie the lining did not build up very much and this could give rise to depressive symptoms.

Hopefully it won't be so bad next month....

Hurdity x

[Suzzie]

I just read this somewhere, maybe explains what you experienced ?? I was wondering the same thing.

Anovulatory cycle
If a woman gets her period but does not ovulate, it is considered an anovulatory cycle.
Why does anovulatory bleeding happens?
Why does a woman continue to have anovulatory bleeding if she is not ovulating? When a woman's body continues to produce estrogen that helps to develop the lining of the uterus, but the level of estrogen is not enough to trigger ovulation that is when anovulatory bleeding occurs. This sometimes is referred to as “estrogen breakthrough bleeding“.

Xx

[dahliagirl]

There are two sorts of bleeding you can get when you have not ovulated:

There is oestrogen breakthrough bleeding, where the lining builds up and then becomes unstable and bleeding occurs.

There is also oestrogen withdrawal bleeding when the level of oestrogen drops, then bleeding occurs.

I charted my cycles during the 18 months between coming off the pill, and going on hrt, in the hope it would give me some sort of clue as to what was going on for managing symptoms and contraception.
I had cycles where there would be high oestrogen symptoms, then my temperature would slowly rise over 2 weeks, then drop with a period (it should have spiked just after the ovulation mucus then been sustained for 2 weeks).  I think it was a sort of half-hearted attempt at ovulation with rather tired folicles.
Later, I had a zigzag temperature graph with random bleeds in between the other sort.
Ironically, the last cycle before I started taking hrt was the only one that was anywhere near a classic menstrual cycle.

I found out about the types of bleeding whilst trying to interpret my charts.  It never really helped me anticipate any of my symptoms, but it was interesting trying.

[GypsyRoseLee]

That's very interesting to read Dahlia. I don't 'chart' my cycle as in take my temperature every day but I do chart as in note symptoms every day and exactly what day I am on in my cycle.

Last month I only had a light bleed for about 2.5 days, barely used 4 'regular' tampons in that time and it didn't seem like 'new' blood, just old looking 'brown' stuff (sorry if that's too gross for this time in the morning). I had no bloating, no breast tenderness, no cramping, no headache. I don't think I ovulated, as my vaginal mucus didn't change (and it usually does quite noticeably) and I had zero libido (I usually feel quite perky in the days prior to ovulation and during).

I just don't think I had a 'proper' period at all. As you say, just a feeble, half hearted attempt which really messed with my subsequent hormone levels and culminated in that horrible emotional numbness for 5 days.

Before I went peri' I used to be a 4 'super' tampons a day girl for a full 5 days. Breast tenderness would be very uncomfortable, I would bloat and easily gain 3lbs in weight. Well 'that' sort of classic period hasn't happened for me for the last 6 months of so.

I just wonder, if my periods aren't 'proper' ones and are really light, could I not get away with just wearing an oestrogen patch and not bother with taking progesterone?

[GypsyRoseLee]

Hurdity - yes, I read that link you sent me but I thought it said you 'could' still have a bleed even if your body hasn't managed to ovulate that month?

I really hope I have a more 'normal' month this month. I'll even happily take the breast tenderness and bloating, if that means I don't get that nasty emotional numbness again.

It's so weird, I don't seem to be having 'any' of the classic physical symptoms of peri menopause. I haven't had any hot flushes. I'm not suddenly hairy. Wrinkles and lines haven't appeared over night. I have lost weight, rather than gained it 

But psychologically I am kicking up a real storm every month.

[GypsyRoseLee]

That's very interesting CLKD, I often go hours and hours not eating due to the nature of my job. I seem to remember reading somewhere that drops in your blood sugar can cause anxiety and increase PMS symptoms?

Not sure if I am remembering that correctly though.

[Rowan]

You can still have "period" if you don't ovulate, this is known as dysfunctional uterine bleeding or anovulatory bleeding, it can be caused by many reasons including PCOs

Leading up to menopause it can happen, you will suddenly bleed, the lining will come away without any obvious PMS symptoms.

Other reasons include
long-distance travel and changes in circadian rhythms
ovarian cysts or other hormone-secreting tumours
strenuous physical activity
significant weight loss or gain
extreme emotional stress
chronic disease, illness, infection
eating disorders
polycystic ovarian syndrome (PCOS

Also

"It's so weird, I don't seem to be having 'any' of the classic physical symptoms of peri menopause. I haven't had any hot flushes. I'm not suddenly hairy. Wrinkles and lines haven't appeared over night. I have lost weight, rather than gained it"

That's all a myth GypsyRoseLee 

[dahliagirl]

I just wonder, if my periods aren't 'proper' ones and are really light, could I not get away with just wearing an oestrogen patch and not bother with taking progesterone?

You would still need progesterone, as the extra oestrogen would be building up more lining. 

[GypsyRoseLee]

Silverlady - are those symptoms more associated with being post menopause then?

I read so many posts on here from peri' women complaining of all the nasty physical symptoms like the hot flushes, hairiness, bloating etc that it took a long time for me to realise that my sudden anxiety/low mood were the result of being peri' too. Because nothing had really changed 'physically' except lighter periods, I assumed for months and months that I couldn't be peri'.

Interestingly my Mum never experienced a hot flush either and yet started the menopause (she thinks) at 39.

[Rowan]

If you do get these problems its most probably to do with getting older in general.

Some lucky women don't get hot flushes at all.

I have had a problem with unwanted hair since I was a teenager, probably genetic.

I don't have lines or wrinkles that's probably inherited too.

You don't fall to pieces once you are post menopause.

[Millykin]

Its funny how the old myths hang around, could you imagine just waking up one day with a beard, big belly and  wrinkles  (well a lot of men do i suppose)
x

[CLKD]

I have no real problems now that menopause has settled.  Initially it was intermittent periods; lights, gaps, no show …… and I did have various places that itch as well as a sudden warm flush after my bath each evening, which coincided with taking my betablocka and AD.  That lasted around 18 months.  I still get the itchy insteps each evening though  .

I do have to check my chin every day for those hairs  …….. but my hair remains in good condition, I haven't put on weight, my energy levels are OK.  Each 1 of us is different 

HRT will guard against osteoporosis and heart problems.