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[karenja]

Hi again!!

stared Ultrogestan two nights ago, still on Estradot patches (no problems with these), the Ultrogestan makes me feel so horrible its hard to stick at it, such a groggy horrible tired feeling that lasts well into lunchtime, I know it doesn't help im getting ove a cold/cough and feel run down, plus I haven't had proper sleep as my cat wont settle at the moment and keeps coming in and waking me through the night (still love her), its so hard right now not to throw the towel in, I came off hrt the other day and had to go back on as anxiety came back Im really torn what to do next, I know I should stick at it but its so very hard when your working full time too feeling like this, additionally again I was running back and fore the loo this morning which happened last time I started it so there must be a connection.  Don't know what to do I just cannot seem to find anything  to suit me (I know Ive switched a lot as scared of side effects) moan over again 

[honeybun]

Go and talk to your GP. You really can't stop and start all the time as your body won't know where it is.
I couldn't tolerate urtogestan either. It irritated my bladder and made it positively painful when used vaginally. It upset my stomach when I took it orally.

Perhaps you would be better on a patch.

It's a difficult decision but only one you can make. All I do know is you can't stop the progesterone again.


Honeyb
X

[karenja]

Hi Honeyb I know and that's whats worrying me that I cant do without it but cant stick it either, Im going for a scan on my fibroids in a few weeks I wonder if they will be able to tell if there is a lining built up on my womb then even thought they are not looking at that? x

[Dancinggirl]

Hi karenja
I've been following your post and you've had some great advice.  I think your main problem is you are blaming the HRT for the way you feel when there are other things that could be causing the problems.  You've just said you are recovering from a nasty virus and your cat is waking you during the night - no wonder you are feeling groggy the next day!!!!!
Have you discussed using a SSRI with your GP to help with your anxiety?  A colleague at work is using Citalopram alongside HRT and is feeling so much better.
DG x

[Millykin]

Still not getting anywhere then karenja, I would take DG advise you can't go on feeling like that.
As for your cat, as much as I spoil mine rotten I close my lounge door over at night so he has access to kitchen and lounge and can't come into bedroom at night, been there it's like having a kid again
X

[Suzyq]

Or maybe take the progesterone earlier in the evening so the grogginess has worn off earlier!  Try to persevere - it is likely that it will get easier

[karenja]

Hi Ladies

I did manage to sleep alnight with no disturbances but have woke feeling shaking, running back and fore the loo etc just feeling awful, it has to be the Ultrogestan and one of the side effects is stomach problem, I really don't think I can take another one, after three I want to come off it, and if I do it will be off hrt altogether yet again fed up of trying to find something to help and maybe Im not giving things a chance but I have to go to work now feeling like I just want to crawl back into bed which isn't good maybe hrt just isn't for me as I don't know what else I can try x

[Kathleen]

Hello karenja and so sorry to hear that you are suffering.

I don't really know what to suggest but could it be that your fibroids are having a huge influence on your hormonal state and having them treated could stabilise things for you ?

In the meantime sending you hugs.

Take care.

K.

[Millykin]

I agree, I know you can't take beta blocker because of asthma but surely your GP can find some suitable AD or something to calm you down, although it takes weeks to get steady into your body it's worth a try and sticking to it for months. I think I remember you saying something about trying regular excercise? If so are you sticking to that?
All the best karenja x

[Night_Owl]

Hi Karen

Sorry that you are struggling on Utrogestan - I know how you feel, I hate the stuff.  Can only relay my experience of HRT  - but as we know, we're all different. 

What I'm about to say may not be the case with you - but it may be. 

I am what is known as 'highly progesterone intolerant' - was told this by the Menopause Clinic.  Apparently of all women who take HRT, 20% will be progesterone intolerant and within that category roughly half will be highly progesterone intolerant.  In my case I was probably intolerant to my own progesterone when I had periods, as I always had very bad PMT, mood swings, extreme period pains etc etc.

This means that taking any progesterone - even the 'kinder', bioidentical, less androgenic progesterone, Utrogestan, can give rotten side effects, of which I experience many.

Over the years I've tried the full spectrum of progesterones and HRT (not Mirena) offered by the Menopause Clinic at a main London Hospital.  Apparently progesterone intolerance is one of the main reasons a lot of women give up on HRT.

I struggle badly taking Utrogestan, by day 5/6 I'm a wreck - it makes me massively depressed, irritable, dozy, slugglish as if I've drunk a bottle of whiskey etc etc, hideous migraines - it temporarily interferes the neurotransmitters of the brain.

If I get really bad by day 6, sometimes I miss a night then continue the next night - but I always take the 12 and breath a huge sigh of relief when I get through.  But it is only every six weeks so I can sort of manage it but it's by no means easy. 

I think all the time of stopping HRT but I've tried this before (3 times now) each time I feel much much worse.

The way round this for me has been to take Utrogestan 100mg, vag-route for 12 nights every six weeks BUT I'm only on HALF of Estraderm (estrogen) 25 patch twice weekly.  This is monitored by the Meno Clinic and I now have yearly womb scans to ensure there is no endometrial build up, as it can still happen on such a low dose - and indeed it has done for me on one occasion.  The low dose estrogen is not ideal and I don't have full symptom relief but it's better than nothing and I can still 'sort of' function in life - whereas without any estrogen, my life is impossible.

I'm not sure if this is helpful to you are not! 

Just relaying my experience of Utrogestan and to let you know it's not great for all of us.  As you know we're all different and what may work for one woman's body may not for another.  It's all trial and error.

If you type in 'progesterone intolerance' in the top right hand search box, you will find previous threads where this subject has been discussed.

Could you ask your GP for a referral to a meno clinic - you may be progesterone intolerant and need specialist advice?

I hope you find a way forward, I do feel for you - keep us posted.

Night_Owl
x

[Rowan]

This is interesting research

http://www.health.harvard.edu/newsweek/Ultra-low_dose_estrogen_patch_improves_bone.htm

0.14 estrogen patch that can used without progesterone/progestin

One patch Menostar  is licenced in the USA but not in the UK when I last checked with my GP

Its roughly the same as half a 25 estrogen  patch (a little less). Its probably more useful for when periods have finished for at least a year but for progesterone intolerant women it could be a way of benefiting from a small amount of estrogen without the over kill of progesterone.

That amount does not build up the lining of the uterus.

If you google you will find a lot about ultra low estrogen therphy.



 

[Night_Owl]

Thanks Silverlady.

I remember when we talked about Menostar before
http://www.menopausematters.co.uk/forum/index.php'topic=14117.0

How much I would love not to take progesterone - but not enough to have a hyster!

Maybe if Karen is prog intolerant she could think about lower estrogen/less progesterone.

[At the meno clinic I asked if I could increase the time to eight weeks between taking the dreaded Utrogestan - or not take it at all - but N Panay's advice was NO.  But that's just me - I got endo build up of 10mm within 6 weeks from just half 25 when I went back on after a HRT break.  I also think I'm one of those who gets build up on Vagifem 10 x twice weekly which I use.  It's remarkable how we all differ so much - I'm always amazed when women say they can tolerate prog when it turns me into the devil.]

Karen, how old are you and at what stage of meno?  (I'm 52 and 8 years post meno - and don't want to be on a higher dose estrogen, ie. take more estrogen = take more progesterone = not for me.)


Night_Owl
x

ps: Magnesium Citrate 500mg x 1  at night helps a bit with the anxiety/jitters when I'm taking Utrogestan.  However so I've been told, nothing can compensate for the effect of loss of estrogen / lowered estrogen on the nervous system.

[Rowan]

It can be used by women with a uterus, it is suggested that a progestin/progesterone challenge is used every six months or year.

It is not aimed at women only who have had a hysterectomy.

It is licensed for bone protection mainly, but that small amount can give other benefits too.

[karenja]

Hi thank you so much Night-Owl and Silverlady, I am 54 Night Owl with my last natural period December 2013, I did have one bleed around June 2014 brought on by coming off one hrt preparation too early, Ive read what you say about Ultrogestan and I know I should stick it out and tolerate it but I cant take another one, I feel so so awful on it, now I don't know whether to cut my estradot patch in half and wean myself off that as Ive been on and off hrt so much taking more estrogen than progesterone Im worried about the womb lining, I am going for a scan for my fibroids (pelvic scan) on the 20th I wonder if they will pick up any problems with the womb lining then or is that a different scan, can you just ask for a scan for te womb lining?, I dread coming off hrt as I suffer anxiety terribly, I know its been mentioned wny don't I take ad's it just I took Ciltaopram for a short time and again felt awful very very down and its put me off, and I don't want to be on anti depressants really, though I know they help lots of ladies and that's great but not something I want to do - what the answer is now I don't know, for now I need to find out best way to wean myself off hrt and then try and deal with how I feel.

I may be progesterone intolerant not sure but my gp's are not v helpful and there is not a menupause clinic, the menostar patch sounds ideal shame they do not have that in the UK.

Maybe I will try the Magnesium Citrate if Im struggling post hrt, if my only option is to come off and right now it seems it is xx

[Dancinggirl]

karenja - Like you I was very against trying ADs (SSRIs) but having seen how it has transformed the lives of a couple of people I know I realise that I shouldn't rule it out if HRT is no longer an option for me. It's a shame you didn't persevere with Citalopram as it does take a couple of weeks to settle and do it's magic. The initital side effects of low mood, nausea etc of this SSRI should subside within 2 weeks and my colleaue who is using this feels really wonderful on them.   
The gynaecologist I saw recently recommended Citapolpram as the one he finds the most effective. He also explained that these new SSRIs like Citalopram don't work in the same way as the old ADs but act in a very positive way on the brain and give a much better outcome generally for many things.
I spoke with my sister who is a very experienced nurse & she thinks these new SRRIs are wonderful - she knows a doctor who is on them and feels so great she doesn't want to come off.  I think we have the wrong perception about these things now.  HRT is still frowned upon by many and these SSRIs/ADs are also somehow seen as a sign of weakness.
Please try to keep an open mind.  You are really suffering with the anxiety and if the HRT isn't working for you then perhaps SSRIs could be worth trying.  Do remember you are still in peri menopause and your own hormones will be fluctuating and dropping so this will really not be helping your situation.
Do look at your lifestyle and diet, perhaps CBT would help?  Beware of spending too much money on supplements and remedies as very few of these things are proven to make a difference.
 DG x