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[Dancinggirl]

Hi Everyone
I was reading through the thread 'Not on HRT' and it struck me what a controversial thing HRT still is. The menopause still holds so many mysteries and fears - not least that it heralds the onset of 'growing older'!!!
100 years ago we would be lucky to get to 50 so the menopause wasn't really an issue. Though HRT has been around for some time now, we are really the first generation who are actually demanding that our symptoms be recognised and helped.

I was told to take a break from HRT last autumn when my Mirena had reached the end of it's life and I thought it was a good idea to come off HRT to see how I coped. I have never been that comfortable being on HRT - I am a life vegetarian (my father was a life vegetarian) and I was brought up to be very wary of any medication. My father was very against antibiotics as he felt they should be only used when absolutely necessary - oh boy was he right on that one. Unfortunately he smoked and died of lung cancer aged 57!!!
Over the last 30 or so years I have grown away from my childhood indoctrination and am now more open to what modern medicine can offer. This site has opened my eyes to so many things and I have learned so much.  I was always so against antidepressants but having read posts from ladies who have really benefited from ADs I have changed my view on this. If I get depressed again and the GP thinks I need ADs - I will take them.

I took the Pill from age 17 because I suffered terrible period pains and I wanted to train to become a professional ballet dancer. The Pill enabled me to have a good career as a ballet dancer and later as a singer, dancer and actress - I performed in over 40 professional productions. 
I had my 2 children in my early 30s and then my periods went haywire! I had to use HRT because of premature menopause in my mid/late 30s and had to put up with very disapproving reactions from many quarters.  Many people took it upon themselves to question what the doctors had prescribed and that I was not only foolish to take HRT but somehow weak. The lobby against HRT is very strong - so I think it is understandable that many women often feel defensive about something that enables them to cope with very stressful lives and brings some "quality of life". There are those who cannot use HRT because of other health issues and many go through a very rough time. Alternative non HRT drugs to help with meno symptoms can bring some nasty side effects and often do not work.
HRT doesn't always work either. I think we would all love something that was entirely safe that would alleviate all those flushes, sleepless nights, aches, pains etc. and I doubt many would refuse taking such a remedy if it existed. The person who comes up with that drug or remedy will be a very rich person indeed.
There is no doubt that there is exploitation from many sources that offer all kinds of remedies, treatments and cures and making money out of peoples suffering. My son was diagnosed with a Primary Language disorder when he was 4 years old.  His communication skills had not developed normally and after 2 years of speech and language therapy we got this diagnosis that put him within the autistic spectrum. I took advice from every professional and appropriate charity I could and managed to get him the eduction he required and I am proud to say he is doing very well. It was highly stressful, there is still a lot of heartache - I nearly had a breakdown at one point but I was really lucky to have supportive friends as my family were useless. I had counselling and CBTI  for over a year that was really beneficial. I came into contact with many children with similar problems but the thing that upset me the most was when the parents of these children began to seek alternative therapies that offered 'magic' cures. These parents wasted so much money and valuable time believing someone could cure their child but their child wasn't getting the help they needed.
I am not saying alternative therapies e.g. herbs, phytoestrogens etc. for meno symptoms are not worth trying.  I am currently trying melatonin to help me sleep - sadly, with not much success. I would, however, urge you to approach these things with caution, seek professional advice, do your research - many of these things cost a lot of money and there are many people out there making spurious claims.  The section on this site on alternative Therapies is very good.  This is a reputable website so I trust the info it gives.
This site really highlights how different we all are and also reflects the different approaches people take to, not just the menopause but many aspects of our health and lives.
I find this site so supportive do please keep sharing and caring.
DG xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx

[Limpy]

 

[Dancinggirl]

Thank you Limpy and Stella
Thank you for your responses.
I am grappling with the idea of going back on HRT at the moment - hence my reflections on my experiences with hormone treatment and medical interventions in general.
The treatment we get for meno on the NHS is patchy at best and the inconsistency makes it so much harder to know what to do for the best.
I am going to see a gynae privately as I feel it's the only way to get some quality time from someone I am hoping will look at me holistically and advice accordingly. At 58 and a half the time is running out before HRT will no longer be an option.  The life stresses are racking up again as my lovely sister is back in hospital seriously ill and yesterday I was so tired I was struggling to put words together in the right order during my tour - I am a tour guide for a brewery.
I read Marilyn's book cover to cover back when I had my 3 year break from HRT and followed her advice with no positive outcome - I felt a real failure.  Just as HRT doesn't work for everyone it's the same with alternative therapies.
Any more thoughts anyone?
DG x

[Hattie]

I am going to see a gynae privately as I feel it's the only way to get some quality time from someone I am hoping will look at me holistically

Just my thoughts - i wondered who you are going to see ? - as don't necessarily expect anything 'better' or holistic just because you are going privately.

Others may have recommendations on here of someone who fits your bill - or you may have already followed that.

Hattie X

[bramble]

I am going to see a gynae privately as I feel it's the only way to get some quality time from someone I am hoping will look at me holistically and advice accordingly.

When I was going through the wringer with menopause problems, I forced my then totally unsympathetic doctor to give me a referral to a private gynae. All I wanted was some information and reassurance that things would turn out ok - I was on my 4th type of HRT by then. It was the most awful appointment with a female gynae. I came out in floods of tears. She neither listened to me nor reassured me. She was of the opinion that I should just get on with it. And she did not seem to be all that clued up on the menopause and HRT. I was devastated.
Things have moved on since then (7-8 years ago).  I hope. So I wish you well. But do not get your hopes up to high. Make sure that the person you are seeing does have a specialization in the menopause or you may be wasting your time and money.

Bramble

[babyjane]

Good luck to everyone in their chosen course of action. Try not to compare your own experiences with others, that is a mistake I made. I looked at what others said to me, what I read in magazines and on forums and I started trying to apply what worked for them to myself. Not much worked as I was not them and they were not me.

I did spend a lot of money on things that were 'recommended' and any relief was transient and temporary.

Gradually I am getting to know myself and am learning that it is ok to be me and what is right for me is not necessarily what others should, or will, do.  I feel like I am waking up from a long sleep, years of wandering aimlessly down paths that have led me to nowhere.  I am really hoping my 60s will prove better and more fulfilling than my 50s have been and I will learn to smile again  .

[babyjane]

It has always been a sorrow of mine that I am not more like my mother. She was a gracious, generous, gentle soul until the day she died.

[Dancinggirl]

Thank you ladies - your comments and thoughts are great.
We are all different and sharing our experiences can really help us to find positive outcomes for ourselves. I think there is a real danger though, that when we hear about some of the negative experiences this can scare us - being open and keeping a balanced view is very difficult - we need to hear the bad as well as the good. I am finding it so difficult to be objective about myself and what is best for me.
RE. seeing a private gynae, I have made an appointment with someone who states that one of his special interests is 'the menopause and HRT' on his website, so I am hoping he will be a good one to see.  I am seeing one of the GPs at my local surgery this Thursday who has been very supportive thus far and will ask her advice about this consultant and whether she can recommend him.
My mother had premature menopause and I remember her being very cranky and temperamental through my teens and beyond because she must have beeb suffering from meno symptoms.
She never used HRT - I doubt she would have taken it even if it was offered, she won't even take an aspirin for a headache.  I now understand why she was so difficult - it was very difficult for us kids as we felt we had to 'tip toe' around her.  She is now 86 and has done ok despite being oestrogen deficient so early but she has had vulva cancer (truly horrible) and she has shrunk by about 4 inches in height.
I think I am kinder to my children than my mother was with us - or at least I hope I am!!!
The NHS is in such a crisis state as it is sooo over stretched and I feel this puts we ladies in a difficult position because meno symptoms are not really an illness and won't kill us. I certainly feel I shouldn't really be bothering these over worked GPs with my relatively minor problems (they are not minor to me though).
Are we expecting too much from the NHS when it comes to quality of life issues like meno symptoms?   DG xxx

[Maryjane]

Today's Daily Mail on line has quite a big peice on the benefits of HRT, Dr Heather Currie and others put there in put in.

I am useless and don't know how to link it. I am considering the HRT route as the pain specialist I saw said meno is playing its part with my pelvic pain.

[Rowan]

Thank you for your heartfelt post.

I am sorry that melatonin has not worked for you especially as I think I recommended it to you. I can only say that it works for me, it also quietens the ringing in my right ear which helps me get off to sleep. 

It also works for my OH too, but he does not take it too often as he says its it leaves him groggy in the mornings and also if he gets up in the middle of the night to go too the loo.

Melatonin is one of the most research, and is not just for helping with delayed sleep syndrome, it is also a powerful anti oxidant amongst other things.

I am sorry it does not work for you DG.

Sleep problems are not just due to menopause they have many causes for men and women, high cortisol levels, stress and an overactive mind are amongst the many culprits.

As you are vegetarian you can't have the soporific effect of a turkey sandwich along with a warm glass of milk a a sprinkling of nutmeg, eaten about nine o'clock at night and maybe a melatonin capsule, really can zonk you out.

Do hope you have success with your appointment and get the answers you are looking for.

[Dancinggirl]

Thank you SL
It was actually me that asked about melatonin and you gave me advice which was very helpful.  I had looked at the research and I thought it made sense that if I wasn't producing melatonin then it made sense to replace it.
I have been taking the melatonin every night for a while now.  I tried the 3mg you just take to help you to fall asleep but I found I was then awake from about 4pm in the morning. I then tried the 3mg slow release and initially I thought it helped a bit with the quality of the sleep I did get but it doesn't seem to work every night.  My main issue is round getting up to pee so many times in the night since I came off HRT - I find I can't get back off to sleep easily and I hoped the melatonin might help with this.  Even while on HRT I still got up 1-3 times per night but fell asleep easily afterwards but now it is often 4 or more times. I've been told not to drink after 6pm, so often go to bed rather thirsty (I do have very small sips of water to keep my mouth moist) and the GP also gave me diuretics to take late afternoon as she thought I was retaining fluids!!!!.  I think the diuretics actually make me dehydrated as I get a headache by the morning and I still got up several times but passed less pee - so I've abandoned these. 
I kept a diary for a few days to monitor what I was drinking and I only drink between 1-1.25 litres per day - yet I'm peeing quite big amounts through the night!!!!! I can go up to 5 hours between pees during the day !!!
Now it's a bit cooler I am sleeping better. Though I get hot flushes they are not severe, for me it's about not being able to control my body temperature - I'm either too hot or too cold in bed. I practise Mindful Meditation and do the things that are supposed to induce good sleep but I now feel I have to just put up with broken nights.
It's the lack of quality sleep that is making me seriously think about going back on HRT - Life is not that stressful at the moment but that could change and if I'm not sleeping well now and getting rather tired then if the stresses build up I will be in serious trouble.
DG x

[orrla]

Are we expecting too much from the NHS when it comes to quality of life issues like meno symptoms? 

Well, what shocked me when I started - back at the end of 1990s - it was this total ignorance of all those who I tried to get help from, which added to all difficulties.

In demanding job than, I was crawling out from my heavily stained with blood bed, knackered after nights spend on changing drenched in sweat tea-shirts, with my mind in cotton wool and whole body shaking...  I don't even want to remember all this!

They tried to put me on ADs, but because I was on my own, with my livelihood depending solely on myself, I had to find better ways than becoming a vegetable at 48. Hence my decision to go on HRT.

I become raging Feminist since. I find it ludicrous that in 21st century we must go through so much confusion - symptoms aside, the whole treatment by others makes Meno so difficult still, the whole taboo of it even worst.

Ironically, my time came at most severe societal changes ever. Friendships falling apart, family breaking up, services cut, and raging ageism with discrimination!

Good thing about all this was that confused as hell as I was I decided to enter Uni - to get my mind away from symptoms - and to find out what is going on. My Masters Degree achieved with Merit was an ironic reward for my suffering

I found that focusing on something I became passionate about helped a lot to go through my Meno.

I still don't know what I can do next, thought, because by standards of most I have no rights anymore...expected to watch TV all day. It is very very sad, I find, how we, older women are perceived in modern world!

Let's try and treat each other well at least!

All the best!

[Dancinggirl]

Thank you orria
I think it is really interesting to learn the journey that many of us have had through this very challenging time in our lives.  It's not just the meno symptoms but so much else going on around us.  As you rightly say, the agism thing is a difficult one - yes, we need to move aside to allow the younger generation to move in but we are now expected to work till at least 66  and I certainly don't want to retire as such - I'd like to think I could be an active contributor to society in my 70s and beyond.
The article on the Daily Mail website which features experiences from profession women including Dr. Currie herself really supports the idea that managing the menopause better will benefit all of society.
I am a tour hide and it is very exhausting work, physically and mentally, though technically this is seen as part time casual work!!!  The lack of sleep is making it so hard to get through each tour I sometimes cannot remember what I am supposed to tell them, which can be frightening.
When I lived in London I was definitely aware that my age was an issue when I applied for jobs.  Here on the Suffolk coast there is a real storage of young people so when I applied for a job here they were truly excited to find someone with experience that wanted a job with them - regardless of age. It is great to be valued.   DG x

[Winterose]

I often wonder if the " pill" wreaked havoc with our bodies and if women who have never been on it have such strong menopausal symptoms

[orrla]

Hi again

I don't accept any of that 'we need to move aside to allow the younger generation to move in'. We are not dead yet therefore very much here, with equal rights - as any other, young or men! And that's how our world ought to be organised - inclusive!  Full stop.

Like you, I want to be engaged, I want to focus - this stupid discrimination gets in my way! Wrrr!

Winterose - it is gentetical thing. Remember your mother? Remember your own puberty? ... I can swear I feel exactly the same! The same rebel )

Must dash.. Good day!