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Author Topic: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno  (Read 91230 times)

Rowan

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #75 on: April 27, 2014, 12:21:26 PM »

Tiredlady I only took one beta blocker, that was enough, never again. I felt like my body weighed a ton and everything seem to slow down.

It might be a good idea to try a low dose HRT, you never know it might be the answer, and if it doesn't work then you just stop it.

The side effects are just that potential, most ladies are fine, especially if you start off with a low dose.

Be brave and go back to your doctor and ask if you can try 3 month trial course of HRT.
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Cassie

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  • Posts: 1898
Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #76 on: April 27, 2014, 02:36:47 PM »

At the risk of sounding like Polly the Parrot... get some HRT! Ask for the gel and the Utrogestan, you can still use the Beta Blockers but you clearly need HRT... nothing else to it, if you dont try, you will never know...
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joziel

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #77 on: August 20, 2022, 10:42:04 AM »

Folks, this is an ancient thread from 2014, but I just want to flag something up!!

The poster (tired lady) was on Cerazette/desogestrel and complaining of low estrogen symptoms. Probably all she needed to do (as for me!) was to stop the desogestrel.

Desogestrel suppresses your ovaries considerably, right down to the early follicular stage and estrogen levels. The effects of this can imitate menopause/peri-menopause.

If anyone appears on the forum and says they are on desogestrel/Cerazette/Cerelle (same things), tell them the cause could be their POP... They may not need HRT yet.
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Limpy

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  • Posts: 344
Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #78 on: August 20, 2022, 10:54:25 AM »

That is really useful Joziel thanks for posting it.
I had tried Cerzette briefly, way before I started HRT. It made be feel dire - really aggravated my MS.
I scuttled straight back on the low dose combined pill that I was on.
Normality (or what passed for it) was restored  ::)
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joziel

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #79 on: August 20, 2022, 11:11:34 AM »

Yes, I think it is a rubbish pill. I was totally fine on Norgeston (levonorgestrel) - which doesn't suppress the estrogen levels quite so drastically.
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Flossieteacake

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #80 on: August 20, 2022, 11:18:01 AM »

For people with migraines that is one of the few pills they can take. I was on another pill but they had to change it to  desogestrel due to migraine. Also I think it may be one of the only pills that is not affected by weight. For many others they cannot be taken if the person is over weight.
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joziel

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #81 on: August 20, 2022, 11:50:13 AM »

Flossie, migraine sufferers and people who are overweight can't take combined pills (with estrogen) but they can take any of the progesterone-only pills.

These include:

Levonorgestrel
Norethisterone
Desogestrel

Desogestrel is not the only POP or mini-pill.
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Flossieteacake

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #82 on: August 20, 2022, 12:01:26 PM »

Flossie, migraine sufferers and people who are overweight can't take combined pills (with estrogen) but they can take any of the progesterone-only pills.

These include:

Levonorgestrel
Norethisterone
Desogestrel

Desogestrel is not the only POP or mini-pill.

I did not realise this. Thank you very much for explaining it to me. It is great you have now found a pill that suits you.
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joziel

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #83 on: August 20, 2022, 05:22:18 PM »

I haven't  ;D I'm only on utrogestan at the moment because it looks like I am hyper-sensitive to estrogen and just can't tolerate it.

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Flossieteacake

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #84 on: August 20, 2022, 05:29:34 PM »

I haven't  ;D I'm only on utrogestan at the moment because it looks like I am hyper-sensitive to estrogen and just can't tolerate it.

Oh no! I am sorry for getting that wrong. How rubbish. :(
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joziel

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #85 on: August 20, 2022, 07:40:38 PM »

Nothing is straightforwards for me  ;D
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Nicodemus

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #86 on: August 21, 2022, 09:45:50 AM »

Hmm, interesting. I got taken off norethisterone and put on desogestrel about 18 months ago in an attempt to suppress my periods and control hormonal migraines. Periods eventually stopped but migraines did not. Then earlier this year noticed minor peri symptoms and went onto HRT - GP thought the HRT might help with migraines too. Then diagnosed with VA a couple of months ago.

GP did a blood test and said I am in peri but still fertile. I like the desogestrel (no period since March but possibly also the onset of the peri symptoms) and I think since I have been on the HRT my migraines are maybe decreasing slightly in intensity and frequency. So am a bit loath to change anything as there is no migraine medication that works for me. However if the deso is causing the VA I would stop it in a heartbeat. I'm seeing the GP again in a couple of weeks so will ask about it.

I should add, at my last appointment we discussed whether I should be doubling the deso because I've been switched to Evorel 50 (from sequi) and a single deso a day isn't enough progesterone apparently, but haven't made that change yet as I wasn't sure about it. And am even more confused now.
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Nicodemus

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #87 on: August 21, 2022, 09:56:32 AM »

I also meant to say, I'm so sorry joziel that you are struggling. Figuring out this stuff seems like a black art to me sometimes and I am beyond angry that women's health has been so neglected in this area so that we have to try and suss it out ourselves.
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Flossieteacake

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #88 on: August 21, 2022, 10:03:53 AM »

Hmm, interesting. I got taken off norethisterone and put on desogestrel about 18 months ago in an attempt to suppress my periods and control hormonal migraines. Periods eventually stopped but migraines did not. Then earlier this year noticed minor peri symptoms and went onto HRT - GP thought the HRT might help with migraines too. Then diagnosed with VA a couple of months ago.

GP did a blood test and said I am in peri but still fertile. I like the desogestrel (no period since March but possibly also the onset of the peri symptoms) and I think since I have been on the HRT my migraines are maybe decreasing slightly in intensity and frequency. So am a bit loath to change anything as there is no migraine medication that works for me. However if the deso is causing the VA I would stop it in a heartbeat. I'm seeing the GP again in a couple of weeks so will ask about it.

I should add, at my last appointment we discussed whether I should be doubling the deso because I've been switched to Evorel 50 (from sequi) and a single deso a day isn't enough progesterone apparently, but haven't made that change yet as I wasn't sure about it. And am even more confused now.

I am confused too. I did try taking 2deso daily but could not tolerate it. I am fine taking 1 but 2 gives me severe depression.
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joziel

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Re: Struggling with palpitations day and night - doc thinks its perimeno
« Reply #89 on: August 21, 2022, 10:29:58 AM »

Nicodemus, desogestrel actually gave me migraines  ;D 

I'd never had them before in my life and after a year on desogestrel I started to get them - without aura. I didn't make the connection with the deso though, and neither did my useless GP (really not clued up on women's issues and hormones, a bit dismissive) - he just gave me sumatriptan. I found that sumatriptan worked great for the migraines but gave me heart palpitations (I seem to have a heart which is a bit sensitive to drugs!) so I didn't take it and just struggled along with a Cephaly device (a TENS machine you put on your forehead, for migraines). I went on like that for about 8 years...

Then I stopped desogestrel and started HRT - and I haven't had a single migraine since. At that point, I didn't know if the migraines had stopped because I was replacing estrogen (and desogestrel had suppressed my estrogen - so they were caused by low estrogen) or whether there was something else in desogestrel which had been causing them.

However, I got an answer to that because I had to restart the desogestrel whilst also being on HRT (because I got an endo flare up). So then I was on desogestrel AND HRT. And with estrogen from the HRT, I still didn't get any migraines....

So I concluded that the way that the desogestrel had caused my migraines was via causing low estrogen. (Sorry that was a v long explanation but I feel like this last year I have done little else other than try to figure out my health  ;D ;D )  I doubled my utrogestan to 200mg daily and was then able to stop the desogestrel again, so I'm not taking it now.

I also had VA, beginning with scratchy prickly discomfort in my vulva and a glue-like discharge (interspersed with a watery one). Since starting local estrogen all that cleared up in a couple of weeks. I had constipation, flatulence, brain fog, couldn't concentrate, night sweats, weird weight gain (like could eat an apple a day and put on weight kind of weight gain!) and more. Every symptom that exists.

Like you, my FSH is still low (4) (I assume that's the same as what you mean by your GP said you are still fertile after blood tests). It was only when I read Lara Briden's book 'Hormone Repair Manual' that I realised this meant I should still be cycling and producing my own estrogen.

I also had zero sex drive or libido on desogestrel. I tried so hard but it just wasn't there. I just gave up that part of my life because I thought I 'had' to take desogestrel to control the endo. I've got that back now.

So basically, I was on desogestrel for 9 years and it led to really low estrogen symptoms which mimicked menopausal symptoms. All those symptoms resolved immediately I started taking HRT - whether I was on deso or not - which supports the idea they were caused by low estrogen rather than some other aspect of deso. My FSH was only 4 so I should still be cycling if it weren't for the desogestrel and we can conclude that the deso was the cause of the low estrogen.

To support that, my estrogen levels about 7 weeks after coming off deso were 233pmol with a 50 patch (ovaries still waking up), then at about 12wks off they were 453pmol - on a 37.5 patch. Showing that the ovaries were now making more estrogen again, since desogestrel had released them... Now I've come off the patch I don't seem to have any of my low estrogen symptoms back yet.

So - I don't actually think I am properly peri yet. I mean, I might benefit from cyclic progesterone (as Lara Briden recommends) but I don't think I need estrogen yet. (Which is good because I appear to have major issues with taking estrogen which isn't my own - and I don't know what I'm going to do there.)

I think desogestrel is a RISKY thing to be taking if you are a peri woman who wants to be maxing out her own estrogen. And I think GPs should be much more aware that it can cause this low estrogen state which mimics menopause. I guess you could just override it by taking more HRT estrogen, but there are probably many women out there on HRT who don't really need to be yet - it's just that the desogestrel is suppressing their own estrogen.

As for what you should do, if I were you, I'd switch the desogestrel for utrogestan....

« Last Edit: August 21, 2022, 10:36:02 AM by joziel »
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