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[Limpy]

Given that the hormones are taken up through the skin, which can't be an instant process.
How long does it take for the effect of a patch to wear off when it is removed?

The background to this. I was removing a patch, cleaning it with baby oil etc. when it occurred to me that, ok, the top layer of glue and grime is removed but presumably there is still hormone in the skin below where the patch was. How long does it take for the hormone beneath the skin to work it's way through?

The other thing which occurred to me is that, if a patch falls off we are told to stick to original patch changeover days.
Presumably, the hormone from the old patch lurks a bit, just wondered how long

Don't know if I've explained this clearly.........
Tried to google it but with no success

[honeybun]

Ooo err, that's complicated but I think I know what you mean.

I always thought that the hormones were almost wholly in the patch itself and there would only be a tiny amount left on the skin.

I also think the uptake is very quick as it worked on my flushes within two days.

But I think it takes quite a long while for your hormone levels to drop again. The last time I had a break it took about six weeks or so before i was back to flushes.

Ok that lot is of no help, just a lot of random thoughts.

Bet Hurdity will have some idea though.

Honeyb
x

[littleminnie]

I've no idea but curious why you want to know?

[Limpy]

Thanks ladies

Honeyb - Your thoughts tie in with mine. When I started the patches I had so much more energy within a few hours, flushes gone within a couple of days. But, if I put a patch near a site used within a couple of weeks or so, it gets irritated. The thing that intrigues me is that some things seem quick, others not so.

Littleminnie - It started as an idle thought one morning when changing a patch!
Thinking hang on, I'me cleaning the surface of the skin but are there hormones still underneath where the patch was.
I'me not complaining mind, I just want to get a better idea of how it works.

I did try googling it but no joy.

[Taz2]

The hormones are absorbed through the skin into the bloodstream Limpy. They don't just stay on the skin if that's what you meant? There is info here on how the different types of HRT are taken up by the body http://www.liverdoctor.com/liver-problems/hormone-replacement-therapy-and-the-liver/

Taz x

[Limpy]

Thanks Taz - I think that's what I meant. I'll go and look at that link now.......

[Hurdity]

There is a very detailed paper about some of these issues
http://www.cenegenicsfoundation.org/library/library_files/Pharmacology_of_estrogens_and_progestogens___influence_of_different_routes_of_administration.pdf

Good luck reading that as it's very long but has some fantastic information in it. I never get very far though! Skimmed through the estrogen part. Found this: 24 hours after removal of the patch serum estradiol levels decrease to baseline. Also the absorption mechanism for transdermal methods - there is a concentration gradient between the application site (ie the patch or gel) and the capillary blood vessels, and serum estradiol levels rise to a maxmimum in 12 hours. So as the serum levels decline from removal of the old patch so the levels start to increase as the new one begins to work. Sounds like this is designed so we will not notice much of a difference (ie serum levels stay roughly the same) provided the patch is stuck well (in practice they do get a bit loose over time).

Compared to this, I wouldn't have thought rubbing the surface of the skin with baby oil would make any difference. Having said that - I leave mine well alone - partly because I'm past caring, and partly because I tend to have sensitive skin so any extra rubbing could set off an allergy - and I don't want anything to come between me and my patches!!

Re keeping to the same days if a patch falls off - I don't think that makes a difference re estrogen only patches, in fact probably better not to change again if one falls off in the middle - because of the dynamics above. With the combi patches there could be some fluctuation in progestogen causing early bleeding if any of these patches fall off, and I can see why you would need to stick to the allotted two weeks of progestogen to ensure it does a complete job on the uterus lining.

Oh dear that all sounds like a complete ramble and doesn't help one bit! I enjoyed looking it up though 

Hurdity x

[Limpy]

Hurdity - That is exactly the sort of information about the hormones I was looking for, thank you for the reference. 
I couldn't work out how things fitted together.   

It's interesting what you say about leaving the skin alone and not rubbing with baby oil.
I think I may be a bit too vigorous with the baby oil when removing patches. I look a bit like a giant panda except less subtle.
I will limit the rubbing in the future, like you I have very sensitive skin and have allergies to all sorts. I want to keep the patches.

Thank you so much for for all of that, I am now off to look at the link.

[Limpy]

Wow Hurdity there is so much info in that paper, I have not managed to read it in detail, yet|

However I did notice several interesting things. 
For example, with matrix patches, the uptake of hormones is greater in thate evening than it is in the morning. Also, it really highlights the benefits of HRT, in particular when the transdermal rather than oral routes are used. I did see the intranasal route of application mentioned, don't think I've heard of that one before|

I've got the paper bookmarked so I will be looking at more in the coming days.
Thanks again.     

[Rowan]

I have used the intranasal method  http://www.netdoctor.co.uk/womens-health/medicines/aerodiol-nasal-spray.html in my opinion the best estrogen route, when I first started it , the suggested dose was two doses in each nostril which was far too much for me, one sniff a day suited me fine.

I read a research page that said it increased nitric oxide which is a very beneficial molecule

http://www.ebi.ac.uk/interpro/potm/2003_4/Page_3.htm

I think it was discontinued because of an manufacturing problem.

I would still be using it today if not for that.

[andius]

Wow Silverlady....never realized you could sniff your hormones....I like the idea!

No DIRTY STICKY RINGS! or semicircles, etc.

Andius