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[Katia]

CAtlike, why do you find you need to apply it in small doses throughout the day?  I am finding that I don't think it lasts so long in my system, but I thought it was because it had to build up. 

[Hurdity]

Hurdity, wouldn't the pill have supplied consistent high progesterone levels?  I was also reading that we need more progesterone, that's what was making me wonder if the 100mg was too low. 

You only need the progesterone in high doses either to help with contraception ( as in the pill) or as part of HRT, to protect the womb lining.  You don't need more (high) progesterone per se. That is a total myth put about by the companies that sell progesterone cream!!!

Both oestrogen and progesterone cause changes to the breasts in different ways.

Hurdity x

[catlike]

Hmmm... good question. I think I read a few years ago that a big dollop might be too much for the body, as we only produce smallish amounts in our younger years.  And for me if I apply to much estro in one go it can cause constipation. It may not be correct but seems to work on the whole for me. At present I'm needing 1.75mg of estro through 24 hour  period. I take 10 days of 100 prog every 4 weeks. Don't get a bleed.

I'm not out of the woods yet re big hormone dips that completely floor me, that seem to have nothing to do with cycling the prog. I get estro dips on and off still way out of the prog window... hoping it will settle soon. I'm now 54. 

Am now on Fluoxetine (3 weeks now) to see if it can smooth things out a bit. I've not been having a good time at all! It all just got too much for me... never knowing when my hormones were going to shift.... getting so low, burning feet on and off... tender sore feet that make walking difficult.. the list goes on and on. Have some good days of course but it's so debilitating. I thought perhaps I might have these challenges when I was a bit older. 54 is still young these days and I feel about 36 in my head!

Oh.... I've gone off topic  ! I'll be off now. Big hugs to all going trough this incredibly difficult time!

[Katia]

catlike, I got diarrhoea when I changed from the pill to the HRT. It must have been the drop in estrogen. I've read a post on another thread where someone was recommended to dose the gel throughout the day as she didn't think it was staying lon enough in her system.  It was the Sandrena though. My biggest challenge at the moment is bloating. My body has changed so much from bloating in just 10 days. I looked in the mirror and just said this stops now. I don't know if it's the estrogen or the progesterone that's doing it.  So do I cut the gel down or stop the progesterone for a few days  . I hope the fluoxetine helps you.

[Cassie]

Its the utrogestan that causes the bloating I am on day 5 and look like I have swallowed a soccer ball, it goes away I would not stop the utrogestan or you will not be getting the correct dose to oppose the gel.

[catlike]

Hi Katia

I get a bit bloated on the prog part. But only take 100mg per night. Can't recall how much you are on? Too much estro though can cause weight gain. I tried going up to 2.0mg for a month or so and definitely gained weight.   I am quite strict re carbs though... keep them down as best I can. Meaning only one piece of toast or half a jacket potato!

[Katia]

Hi Catlike, I'm on 100mg a night. I've just decided to have my 3 days off. Not sure if I'll get a bleed. I've also reduced the gel from 3 pumps to two.   The symptoms will probably return and I have a headache today, but I'll see how it goes. The bloating and fluid are still there. They build up more as the day goes in too  Strange how the pill never caused the bloating and fluid retention.  Three pumps is the same estrogen as Qlaira which wasn't a problem, but is with the gel.  I did read somewhere that transdermal is more likely to cause bloating Than tablets though.   Just as I seem to be getting there, bam another side effect

[Noheroicsplease]

Does anyone actually like utrogestan?! I am thinking of changing over but panicked by all the crappy reactions to it...

[meno lesley]

Hi

Catlike I take 1.5 elleste solo and 100mg utrogestan coninuously. I went through a long period of time with burning, painful feet making it almost impossible to walk and then it suddenly went away. It has now reared its head again and I can only say that I think it's an imbalance in hormones that kicks it off. I have seen lots of doctors and had scans but never shows up anything x

[Katia]

Noheroicsplease, I'm not sure if I like Utrogestan. I do find I need to take it about 12 hours before I get up, otherwise I struggle to get up which is hard to juggle with the food.  I do have some terrible bloating and fluid retention.  My whole legs and my middle are swollen. I feel like my legs are struggling to move. I don't know if this is the Utrogestan or the gel. The consultant said the studies don't show it, but it is listed as a side effect on both the Utrogestan and oestrogel inserts. Both my partners suffer fluid, so maybe I'm prone to it, but not probe with the pill. I've just stopped it for a few days and have reduced the gel. The fluid is still there, but this is the first day without the Utrogestan so maybe I'll know more tomorrow.  I e taken a water tablet, which I probably shouldn't have done.   I have a GP appt on weds so want to figure it out. I have just read an article saying that it can cause hypotension (lower blood pressure).  My blood pressure runs on the low side or normal, but I don't seem any different in that way.

[Hurdity]

Does anyone actually like utrogestan?! I am thinking of changing over but panicked by all the crappy reactions to it...

Hi noheroicsplease - there are  many of us who do not like any form of progestogen including progesterone - and some who are OK with the synthetics and not progesterone itself. Many women suffer some form of pms during the second part of their menstrual cycle so it's not surprising that this is the part of HRT that causes most of the problems - if there are  going to be any.

For me it has always been a consideration of taking the most natural form of HRT in the most natural way possible (apart from the first 3 months when I didn't know anything so was given a synthetic progestogen) - so this means nil-by-mouth, and  hormones that are bio-identical (ie estradiol and progesterone) . Increasingly there are studies showing the superiority of doing it this way - in terms of risks ( which is only to be expected really!) - but these
 risks really only become significant considerations for those of us who take HRT long term and into our 60's.

Don't be put off - but if you are going to take it then unless you are one of the few who relish the calming effects of a small dose of progesterone ( as opposed to the sedating brian-fog-inducing properties!) - I would recommend taking it on a cycle - especially if late in menopausal transition or post-meno.

Hurdity x

[Katia]

Just wondering if most of you split your dose or gel, or do it all in one go?  I'm doing one pull in the morning and one at night at the moment. I'm getting really bad fluid retention and bloating which build during the day and I wondered if I did it all at night if it may help that, or maybe it won't make a difference.

[Annie0710]

I do my hrt each morning to avoid any transfer risk

[Hurdity]

If you feel the gel doesn't suit you and you have given it a good go, then perhaps try a patch Katia? Also try taking utrogestan on a cycle rather than the 25 days out of 28?

Hurdity x

[Katia]

It's been two weeks now Hurdity.  Some of the symptoms at first were, I  think, from the drop from Femodene to HRT.  I still have the bloating and fluid retention.  I was so uncomfortable sat at my desk on Friday and so upset at the big bags under my eyes and swollen neck that I had to make some changes.  I reduced my gel to two pumps and stopped the utrogestan for three days.  The bloating is still there and so is the fluid, but it isn't as bad and I look a bit more normal.  It's manageable.  The two pumps isn't quite enough, but I could struggle by until I see the consulatant next month, or slowly add it back once I know what happens when I add the utrogestan back in tomorrow night.   

I am on 25/28 cycle, but the consultant left it to me to choose.  I emailed him about the fluid and he just told me to keep a symptom diary and that the stuides didn't conclude that was a side effect of HRT but was of the pill.  The insert with the gel lists bloating and both the gel and the utro list fluid retention as potential side effects.  I have read a study that said there was less bloating/fluid with oral estrogen.

On a cycle, how long does the bleed last?  I started to bleed today - 3rd day off utrogestan.  I'm still sleeping exactly the same without the utro and it hasn't affected my energy levels.  I am hungrier though without that progesterone 'I'm full' signal.

Thank you Hurdity for all the time you spend responding to my many questions.  I was expecting the HRT to be a smooth transition as I'd no problems with the pill.