Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[catlike]

Hi Ruthae

If you were taking the prog cyclically then I would wait til 2nd half of cycle. Count bleed as day 1. Am not knowledgeable re adding in the prog sooner- but i would think if taking it on conti basis then wait til bleed has finished?

[Dancinggirl]

ruthae - I assume you are peri meno?  In the peri stage it is best to start on the lower dose as your own hormones will still be having an influence.  Starting with 2 pumps per day could have given your oestrogen levels a big boost and may have triggered the bleed???!! The womb lining can build up too much in the peri stage which can cause erratic and problematic bleeding.  Perhaps try using one pump per day for the first 2 months and just an extra half a pump when using the Utrogestan if absolutely necessary.  You may not need the extra gel with Utro if you are still producing quite a bit of oestrogen yourself - although this will probably be fluctuating. To get a controlled bleed, I would try taking Utro orally at 200mg every night for 12 days starting on the day you are supposed to (so tomorrow) - you may not get that much of a bleed after you have finished this Utro stage as you are already bleeding but it may help to get your cycle in sync. You could then try using Utro vaginally next month and this way you can tell which way you prefer.  Some prefer using it orally as it can have a calming effect and help with sleep (I feel quite euphoric) - I found that using it vaginally made me feel uncomfortable - we are all different so what works for one won't work for another. It could take a few months to get a regular cycle going depending on how far into peri you are.  DG x

[ruthae]

Thanks Catlike and DG

Yes am still peri I think,  had irregular cycle for 15 months then no periods for 4 before starting on HRT.
Started me on 2 pumps because I had been on higher oestrogen dose of Prempac, then Ellesste, then Femostan...  But maybe I have been over dosing on oestrogen when I have taken it without progesterone???  All so confusing like one of those balls into holes puzzles, which is what mad e me wonder about justvstopping to see what was natural symptoms and what was HRT.  I have some other stuff going on to and am seeing Councellor for that but don't we all, this is life.   But it seems  a bit daft not to take the stuff that has taken me so long to get.

Confused, will sleep on it...

[Dancinggirl]

When I was peri meno, I was put on quite a high dose of HRT and got side effects e.g. headaches. When I was reassessed by a meno clinic, they then put me on one pump of gel each day with 10 days of progesterone each month that worked really well for some years till I was into post meno. DG x

[ruthae]

That is interesting DG, thanks for explaining.  I'll give that a go. Feel so much better now I am bleeding.... weird isn't it....

Rx

[Peterspots]

On day 5 of 7 days urogesteran and feel fine. Much better than on continuous. Have put on 1/2 stone in 3 months. Anyone else had this experience?

[Goosieloosie]

On day 5 of 7 days urogesteran and feel fine. Much better than on continuous. Have put on 1/2 stone in 3 months. Anyone else had this experience?

Yes I have, I have put on exactly half a stone since the end of November, I know this exactly as I had been dieting and lost 2 stone, I am now struggling to get that half stone off again, I know Christmas was in the middle & I had steared off slightly but I have been healthy eating since January & I'm really struggling with that half stone 

[Hurdity]

I think progestogens are well known to cause some bloating/fluid retention. I always weigh myself after the utro has left my system! If you are on continuous utro (or any prog) then I presume this can be a permanent side effect?

Hurdity x

[Kate50]

I've put on a whole stone since starting just oestrogen in September so god knows what will happen with progesterone!  I needed to put weight on though.  Took first utrogestan last night and had a headache all day! It will be going up tonight the DH has offered to place it!

[rachthemidwife]

Just posting an update. I have been seen for my voice issue by the ENT bods and it seems to be a combination of hormones and "functional dysphonia" with a bit of my Ehlers Danlos syndrome chucked into the mix. The edginess and anxiety following upping my Sandrena to 2 mg stopped after I decided to split the dose (1mg in the morning and 1 mg in the evening). During the progesterone part of the cycle my voice almost goes completely and by the second week of Sandrena only it is normal again. I feel better than in about 8 years. I actually have a libido again (loss of libido was my very first peri symptom about 10 years ago and was what took me to the dr to start HRT), my energy levels are climbing and I feel like me (I thrive on a certain level of edginess so am more than happy with the level of nerviness I have now). I was asked by. The menopause clinic nurse to have my bloods taken so went back to 1mg for a few days beforehand and the results showed me at about 240 which may be in the normal range but obviously not normal for me as I was feeling pretty flat during those 1mg days. I guess we all feel normal on different blood oestrogen levels. I will be talking this through with my menopause clinic nurse later this month and, if she is not happy to keep me on 2mg Sandrena and 200mg Utrogestan for days 1-12 of the month, I will seek a private consultation with Prof Studd. Anyone else out there that needs to tick along on a high oestrogen? If so, how is it panning out for you and do you adjust up and down through the month?

[Dancinggirl]

rachelFD - all very interesting.  I am personally in no doubt the effect of oestrogen deficiency has an effect on many areas of our body.  Everything tends to dry out so our skin, throat, nasal passages - all mucous membranes become more sensitive and prone to reacting to irritants etc. The loss of muscle strength is also an issue when looking at problems with the voice.  I have been a professional singer so I know the diaphragm and other muscles play a big part in supporting the voice and, again, the lack of oestrogen reduces muscle and tends to increase fat - fat is no good for the voice. I assume you have been advised to seek the advice of a speech therapist - if not I would strongly recommend this.
Since coming off HRT 2 months ago I have even had a re-emergence of my bad stomach acid issues so have needed PPIs again.
You don't say how old you are but if you are still in your 50s then I expect the 2 sachets of Sandrena is probably the right dose for you anyway  - 240 level of oestrogen is quite low and my gynae wanted me at 600!!!!
I wouldn't waste you money by going privately - just stick with the regime you have found and in about 3-6 months things will be even more improved.
You could switch to Oestrogel instead of Sandrena (i much prefer it) - I think it is slightly easier to use and has more flexibility - you could start with just 2 pumps per day which is probably be about 1.5 sachets of the Sandrena, so you could adjust until you find the right balance for you.  Dg x

[Mary G]

Stellajane, in a word, no. 

It took me a while to realise that oestrogen acts like a control centre for so many vital functions and if you take it away, it wreaks havoc on just about everything.  I am so glad that I had a dodgy thermostat which prompted me to take HRT otherwise I might have just carried on with oestrogen deprivation and heaven knows what I would be facing now. 

Much more needs to be written about this and it really is time for the medical profession to wake up and realise the huge implications and the far reaching health problems that women face if they do not replace their oestrogen levels. 

This "suck it up" attitude to the menopause really doesn't cut it in this day and age and this is a problem that is so easily fixed with the right advice. 

[Trufflecat]

True Mary. Plus it is so cheap to fix! Much cheaper than all the things that oestrogen depletion and any hormone imbalance causes.

[dahliagirl]

Stellajane - I noticed a drop in voice pitch when I came off the pill - As a 1st alto/2nd soprano voice, I only used to get to a bottom G on a good day - I can do an F comfortably now.  I will be joining the Tenors soon 

HRT seems to have stablilised it.  I was a bit worried I might be losing my top notes.

There are a lot of older sopranos around, but they do seem to lose tone.  You need younger ones in the choir to balance it out.  It does not seem to be a problem with the lower voices, though.

[anais]

28 days on Estrogel & Utrogestan concerns about bleeding

I've been on combined continuous HRT for 4 weeks exactly. I'm 53 and 3 years post menopausal. I was investigated last year for postmenopausal bleeding and was told it was due to oestrogen deficiency and vaginal atrophy. I had TV ultrasound, endometrium and ovaries as expected post menopause, no polyps, no fibroids, nothing abnormal, smear test showed no abnormal cells, and cells had atrophic pattern.

I was referred to the postmenopause clinic but it was a 6 months wait and I received no treatment in the interim period. I bled very easily with the slightest impact, including smears of blood on the Replens applicator I tried, so I just left that part of the body alone and gave up on the Replens. It wasn't doing anything for my VA anyway.

I've been on Vagifem for 8 weeks, starting off with the 2 week load and so on, but again, smears of blood on the applicator now and then. It didn't help that much with the dryness, I felt sort of "sticky" rather than moist, so I could tell it wasn't addressing the VA particularly well.

For the past 4 weeks I've been on 2 doses of Estrogel daily and 1x 100mg Utrogestan at night. I have been prescribed continuous  Utrogestan, no breaks, and I have never missed a dose. I haven't missed a dose or been late with the Estrogel whatsoever. I've taken everything exactly as prescribed.

After beginning Vagifem I started using a panty liner because I had a whitish discharge no secretions at all for a few years.  I sometimes wondered whether I had a very slight yellowish tint and I wondered could it possibly be a tiny bit of blood especially as I'd sometimes have a slight blood smear on the Vagifem applicator but I couldn't be sure. In any case I realised that VA isn't going to disappear overnight.

Combined HRT was interesting. Within a few days my labia minora became enlarged and painful, and felt very raw. I saw the Nurse Practitioner at the GPs surgery. She said I looked very dry and sore and prescribed an aqueous cream to use as a soap and moisturiser and an antifungal cream. She also took a swab but it was negative for candida etc so I don't think it was caused by infection. It has settled but the edges of my labia minora are still very sore even though I have used the antifungal cream for over 2 weeks. I'm not as bizarrely swollen as I was. I'm inclined to believe that this was triggered by the HRT and my tissues being shocked into action after years of having nothing to do.

After 4 weeks on full HRT, my vagina now feels moist and a lot like it did pre-menopause but I also seem to have some streaks of blood coming from the vagina today. Yesterday I had what looked like a slightly blood stained discharge and I had some definite streaks of blood when checking internally for the source of any bleeding.

Obviously I'm concerned. I believed that if the VA had been addressed by full HRT then any bleeding caused by fragile tissues would be less of a problem, not more. I've never noticed streaks of blood before, not actually evident on loo paper after going to the toilet, as happened today. Checking my HRT leaflets it also seems that unscheduled bleeding can occur in the early months of combined HRT so that's yet another concern, but how would I know whether it's VA or not? I have no way of knowing. I don't suppose anyone does.

I'm seeing my endocrine gynae consultant this week so I'm fortunate that it's coinciding with my appointment. When I told him about smears of blood on the Replens applicator etc he wasn't bothered in the slightest. I was told at my appointment in July when I had TV US, smear, etc, that I was given the all clear for 6 months yet it took 6 months to start treatment, so I have no idea whether I should worry.

Similar experiences of PMB would be welcome.

Thanks.