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[sandi]

I do believe we are designed to fast CLKD!  Human beings have evolved over thousands of years as hunter gatherers, and often would go through 'lean times with little or no food for long periods.  Then we would 'feast' if we killed an animal, or found plentiful berries etc.  I think our fear of hunger (and low blood sugar) is deep rooted, and a belief I used to hold.  Now I know differently - I have been on the 5:2 way of life (I hate the word diet) since last September not long after the Horizon programme, and I have lost 1 stone 9 pounds.  Yes I feel hungry at times, but it never builds and builds to anything terrible, just a background feeling.  I think that the days I ever had a headaches were when I didn't drink enough.  Because a lot of the food we eat contains moisture, cutting the calories and food intake is bound to decrease body fluid levels.  I drink lots of hot water on fast days, and this helps with keeping headaches at bay, as well as constipation (which can always be a problem for me if Im not careful).  It really is a fantastic way of getting unwanted weight off, reclaiming a lean body that is our birthright, and just generally getting oneself back in order after years of feeling quite frankly - shite!  I still have chronic pain and fatigue, low moods at times, and menopausal symptoms, but at least I am doing something positive for my body.  And - it's only 2 days a week!!  Good luck everyone, you can do it if I can. 

[Firewalker50]

I do believe we are designed to fast CLKD!  Human beings have evolved over thousands of years as hunter gatherers, and often would go through 'lean times with little or no food for long periods.  Then we would 'feast' if we killed an animal, or found plentiful berries etc.  I think our fear of hunger (and low blood sugar) is deep rooted, and a belief I used to hold.  Now I know differently - I have been on the 5:2 way of life (I hate the word diet) since last September not long after the Horizon programme, and I have lost 1 stone 9 pounds.  Yes I feel hungry at times, but it never builds and builds to anything terrible, just a background feeling.  I think that the days I ever had a headaches were when I didn't drink enough.  Because a lot of the food we eat contains moisture, cutting the calories and food intake is bound to decrease body fluid levels.  I drink lots of hot water on fast days, and this helps with keeping headaches at bay, as well as constipation (which can always be a problem for me if Im not careful).  It really is a fantastic way of getting unwanted weight off, reclaiming a lean body that is our birthright, and just generally getting oneself back in order after years of feeling quite frankly - shite!  I still have chronic pain and fatigue, low moods at times, and menopausal symptoms, but at least I am doing something positive for my body.  And - it's only 2 days a week!!  Good luck everyone, you can do it if I can.

Oh Sandi - you made me laugh with that little comment hidden in your post.
I agree wholeheartedly with your post. 
Some people may not like it or agree with it or wish to do it but then it is up to an individual to make that decision, try it and continue to stop.

I like it.  I have very very very very very stubborn weightgain.  Fluctuating 2lbs up and down.  I am focussing on this 5:2 eating plan and keeping everything crossed, since I do enjoy it and feel better having abstained from eating too much on 2 days.

Congratulations on your weight loss.  If I remember correctly, you said it took a little while for the weight to start coming off.   Would you mind giving me some more details about how long it took to start and how much started to come off.

Fx

[pixie]

  Good on you Sandi and Firewalker.  I have lost 4 pounds, since doing this, so will continue.  I had forgotten about prunes, but will bring them back into my daily routine and also drink more water. x

[Hurdity]

I do believe we are designed to fast CLKD!  Human beings have evolved over thousands of years as hunter gatherers, and often would go through 'lean times with little or no food for long periods.  Then we would 'feast' if we killed an animal, or found plentiful berries etc.

I think the issue is more complex than this. I started looking it up but can't find the reference apart from the paleo review below. But the essence of it was that it may have been beneficial to our survival as a species to be able to fast intermittently, but that this is not necessarily beneficial for women (now we are not in that situation ie starving hunter gatherers) because of changes in our metabolism and hormonal regulation that occur through adopting this practice. This was one comment in the link I found
"Many women find that with intermittent fasting comes sleeplessness, anxiety, and irregular periods, among a myriad of other symptoms hormone dysregulations. "

I also read somewhere that women who fast over a long period (OK this is 5:2 but the relevant aspects have not been studied fully in women I understand) may have increased androgens (I think there was info on this) - which can account for their irregular periods and the idea was the adaptive response was to make women more masculinized which would aid survival.

OK this is only a theory - but I believe based on some research I read, but worth thinking about?

I know the ADF or rather the 5:2 IF is all the rage and great that it can kick start the weight loss and healthy eating process - but this is another viewpoint.

As always I would want to look at scientific studies into just these aspects for women - but I think leading up to menopause some women may feel they have enough fluctuating hormones as it is without possibly upsetting things further!

I think it's fantastic those who have managed to lose weight and still feel well - you are stronger than I am as I felt terrible on fasting days ( although I did the ADF) but just wanted to pick up on the point made about our evolution.

Hurdity x

[pixie]

There is a lot of controversy about it, because of long held beliefs about blood sugars dipping and metabolism slowing down etc. For some it really has had a very beneficial effect. For me, I think it is useful in the short-term  to try and kick start the weight loss and maybe rest the digestive system. Apart from the headaches, I don't feel particularly well, or particularly bad on it.  Some of it is psychological, because I stress about not eating, which is something I enjoy doing, which probably gives me the headache. I am doing it for the rest of this month. I feel good in that I am doing something positive to lose weight for a few weeks, but it is probably not a lifestyle choice I would make in the long-term, but would eat less and more healthily generally.  During menopause we tend to gain more weight and need less calories. A lot of women don't make provision for this and eat the same way they did in their 30's and 40's, thus gaining a pound of weight a year. Its made me realise that I really don't need so much food and am amazed I can function quite well with a little amount. Probably save money too!! I'm interested in the process of  improved cell regeneration that happens when we fast, as reflected in blood results etc

[Firewalker50]

Pixie

It is interesting you talked about requiring less calories.
Have you calculated your base metabolic rate and the calories you now need?
I cannot remember if I mentioned it before.  You may find it interesting.
This site does the calculation for you although it does state how to calculate long way at the bottom,

http://www.exercise4weightloss.com/bmr-calculator.html

This calculation takes into account sex, weight, height and activity.

Fx

[Taz2]

Thanks FW that's interesting. My basic need is 1629 calories according to this. I have around 1200 a day - sometimes much less - and the half stone I would like to lose is stubbornly staying put. The doc has said that I am not eating enough calories and I need to increase it to change my metabolic rate. Maybe she is right!

Taz x

[pixie]

Hi Firewalker,yes i did read about it and found it very good. It was 2030.
I read somewhere that before menopause if we took in 1000 calories, we burn 700, but after menopause we are more likely to burn 300!. I do find that the menopause makes me feel a bit sluggish generally especially in the bowels department and am aware I need to do more excercise to liven myself up x

[Firewalker50]

I need to read more into the metabolic rate / calories.

I need around 1800 per day.
I do not generally eat anywhere near that.  However, last weekend I had a very social weekend and I would have probably exceeded on both days.
but at the beginning of the week I had put on 1lb, so that I would think is not ideal either.

However, I previously read, that if your metabolic rate has dropped very low, then if you go on high calorie and suffer the increase in weight initially, it resets itself and then the weight comes off.   I have no more information than that and I remember thinking if I put on any more I will go into a deep depression 

Hmmm.  I don't want to get myself confused again with all the advice food, nutritition, physiological and diet advice again.  I will stick with the 5:2 for another month and see how that goes but will be aware of the calories on the 5 days.

It may well be the case for you Taz.  Are you thinking of trying to up it.   Any 'diet' class I have been too has told me to eat more to lose.   Except rosemary conley who is strict with calories, fats and sugars (my friend attends that).

Anyway, 5:2 it is for me..... for now.

Fx

[Rowan]

For those who cannot stick to a fast diet ( for some it suits very well) like the 5.2  e.g. partner not wanting too (it can be hard if you are cooking normally for them) , why not eat sensibly during the day perhaps sticking to low GI food ( the 5.2 is based on this) and have your last meal around six o'clock and fast until the next morning, breaking it about eight o'clock, This works for me and I find I am not hungry in the evening and surprisingly when I wake up, over night your body goes naturally into a ketosis state which is an appetite suppressor.

We only eat one main meal a day and the last one is the lightest, one thing I do is keep some bread sticks by the side of my bed, and if I am having trouble dropping off I eat one, its usually enough to calm my brain enough to get me to sleep along with a little melatonin one of the things that can happen when you are lowering your carb intake is it effecting your sleep and after reading the 5.2 fast book  it is very low in carbs which in itself will help with losing water weight and then fat loss as the body begins to switch from sugar to fat for energy (and no I am not getting mixed up with the 5.2 fast with the Aitkin's Diet)

Also it is very important to drink plenty of water as  dehydration can cause headaches which is one of the symptoms reported on the 5.2 way of eating, I do think this way of eating suits men better then women, we are different in out nutritional and hormonal needs and it can be harder for women.

[Hurdity]

However, I previously read, that if your metabolic rate has dropped very low, then if you go on high calorie and suffer the increase in weight initially, it resets itself and then the weight comes off. 
Fx

Yes I have read this too. After initial weight loss your body's metabolic rate adapts to fewer calories - which is presumably why it often becomes hard to shift the more weight you lose. I am not sure how this works if you don't put your body into starvation mode - but I do know this is why you should only eat just under your calorific requirement in order to lose weight slowly and steadily.

One of the schools of thought is that in order to do this you would say diet (sensibly without going hungry) for 5 days of the week and eat a lot more ( of the right foods - eg especially high proten foods) on the other two days to boost your metabolism.  You eat different amounts of carbs on the different days - I think the food types are fairly specific. Possibly called cycle dieting or zig-zag. Actually this is almost the opposite of the fasting!! Not sure whether it has any effect on cell regeneration though.....

Hurdity x

[CLKD]

Humans nor our pets would get a 'balanced diet' in the 'wild' ;-).  I wonder how the native tribes live in the modern age, those that are in the Amazon or living along-side nature in the various desert regions?

"reclaiming a lean body that is our birthright  .... "  how lean would you like me to be: I weighed in at 3lb 4oz  and my friend was a stone  when he was born ........... bodies alter every 7 years apparently: shape, mobility, eslasticity etc............

[Firewalker50]

Does that mean I might revert back to my lean fit body next year CLKD?  At the end of 7 years ?  Please say yes 

[sandi]

Most of the studies done on women have been looking at ADF rather than the 5:2 plan - it is early days for research into it fully.  But I take all your points ladies, we are all different, and we have enough to put up with in the menopause, without stressing if the 5:2 doesn't seem to suit you.  Good luck with everything you all do - I am just chuffed to bits that it seems to be working for me.  My daughter in law struggled initially, but with a bit of advice and encouragement is now loving it, and the unwanted pounds are moving now.

[pixie]

Hi Sandi, I'm encouraged by the weight loss, and will be having another go tomorrow. Will drink more water and maybe have an apple if the headache starts around 4pm. 
I haven't decided whether to have breakfast yet. If I do, it will probably be baked beans and grilled bacon and a some mushrooms - around 300?  Tea, water etc, and miso soupl   Mackerell and large salad for tea, or fish and stir-fry.  How are you all getting on? x