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[learning2me]

Hi,

I took HRT - 3 different types - for 4 years. Only problem was headaches. However I was then diagnosed with a Brain Tumour and stopped it last September.

Really suffering with all the classic meno symptoms now.

My GP has suggested toughing it out, but wil prescribe again if I really want to go back on. So I am also having the quality of life dilemma.

My holiday was a disaster as it was just one long hot flush 

It is interesting to read ther people's experiences, and the decisions they have made.

So pleased I found this site 

[newstart]

Hello ladies

I have just introduced myself on the new members thread.

I am 51 this month and had my last period in February 2006, after the perimenopausal stuff that most people seem to be describing - short cycles, flooding, periods going on for weeks etc, etc.  Hot flushes started at that stage but were erratic - and relieved by the next period.  However (you know the story, girls) once the periods stopped completely it has been uninterrupted hot flushes and night sweats, now with the added delights of vaginal dryness, menofug and joint pains.

In fact for a very brief period at the end of last year I took HRT (Premarin) and reverted to being a fully functioning human being within a few weeks.  My family rejoiced! 

Shortly afterwards though, there was that report from the USA about the reduction in breast cancers which was attributed to the fall in HRT use following the WHI research.  I went cold turkey and came off Premarin overnight.

Now, I am thinking again about going on to HRT - there is no family history to suggest that I shouldn't, and I have no adverse medical conditions.  I have read a lot of different analyses of the results of the WHI and Million Women Study and it seems that the results have been dramatised for maximum impact in the media.   Everything I have read suggests that the best way to control menopausal symptoms is through HRT.  I have tried all kinds of alternative remedies - they are expensive, and haven't worked.

If I have a concern about going on it it's that I might have left it too late (18 months since last period).  I know that there is a 'window of opportunity' and beyond that time HRT can have a negative effect on the body.  But, on balance, I think I'll be going back to the Doc's for a prescription.

Oh, yes, and one more thing  have found out - I have often wondered about women doctors, and how many of them take HRT, well, I found a study (University College London) from 1997 which stated that 72% of menopausal women doctors took HRT.  It would be interesting to know what the percentage would be now.  However, as a friend of mine has pointed out there are plenty of women GPs working part time well beyond retirement age in our part of the world.  They look very fit and healthy and were likely to be in the Cohort of 1997!

Just wondered what your thoughts were on this?

Take care, all!

Patricia

[flutterby]

Hi Patricia
Very interesting those statistics on GPs.
Makes you think that probably few of them are actually taking the grin and bear it route, taking into account the percentage of women who are suffer only minor problems or are virtually symptomless. I wonder also how many take 'alternative therapies'
Flutterby

[newstart]

Hello again

Sorry but I have misread that research:

Here is the link to the article about women doctors:  http://eprints.ucl.ac.uk/archive/00001802/

And the abstract:

Abstract

STUDY OBJECTIVES: To ascertain the determinants and experiences of hormone replacement therapy (HRT) use by menopausal women doctors. DESIGN: Postal questionnaire. SETTING: UK. PATIENTS: A randomized stratified sample of women doctors who obtained full registration between 1952 and 1976, taken from the current Principal List of the UK Medical Register. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES: Current and previous use of HRT; reasons for and against HRT use; menopausal status; hormonal contraceptive use; lifestyle patterns; family and personal history of disease. MAIN RESULTS: While 73.2% of 471 users had started HRT for symptom relief, 60.9% cited prevention of osteoporosis and 32.7 prevention of cardiovascular disease. Altogether 18.7% had started for preventive purposes alone. Significant predisposing factors to starting HRT were the presence and severity of menopausal symptoms, surgical menopause, past use of hormonal contraception, and a family history of osteoporosis. HRT users were also more likely to use skimmed rather than full fat milk, to try to increase their intake of fruit, vegetables, and fibre, and to undertake vigorous physical activity at least once a week. They were less likely to have had breast cancer. Long duration users were more likely than short duration users to be past users of hormonal contraception and to be using HRT for prevention of osteoporosis as well as symptom relief; they were less likely to have experienced side effects. CONCLUSIONS: The high usage of HRT by women doctors reflects the fact that many started HRT on their own initiative and with long term prevention in mind. The results may become generalisable to the wider population as information on the potential benefits of HRT is disseminated and understood. However, HRT users may differ slightly from non-users in health-related behaviour and a substantial minority may never take up HRT, at least until the benefit-risk ratio is more clearly established.

Reading it again it says that 72% of users take it for symptom relief not that 72% of respondees said that they took it.  However it does refer to high usage by women doctors.

Still interesting, I think.

Patricia

[newstart]

And another abstract with information on actual level of usage

Link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=8520274&ordinalpos=2&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVDocSum

Utilisation of hormone replacement therapy by women doctors.Isaacs AJ, Britton AR, McPherson K.
Department of Public Health and Policy, London School of Hygiene and Tropical Medicine, England.

OBJECTIVES--To ascertain the prevalence and duration of use of hormone replacement therapy by menopausal women doctors. DESIGN--Postal questionnaire. SETTING--General practices in the United Kingdom. SUBJECTS--Randomised stratified sample of women doctors who obtained full registration between 1952 and 1976, taken from the current principal list of the Medical Register. MAIN OUTCOME MEASURES--Prevalence and duration of use of hormone replacement therapy; menopausal status. RESULTS--Overall, 45.7% (436/954) of women doctors aged between 45 and 65 years had ever used hormone replacement therapy. When the results from women still menstruating regularly were excluded, 55.2% (428) were ever users and 41.2% (319) current users. The cumulative probability of remaining on hormone replacement therapy was 0.707 at five years and 0.576 at 10 years. CONCLUSIONS--Women doctors have a higher prevalence of use of hormone replacement therapy than has been reported for other women in the United Kingdom, and most users seem to be taking hormone replacement therapy for more than five years. The results may become generalisable to the wider population as information on the potential benefits of hormone replacement therapy is disseminated.

[newstart]

I'm on a roll now .....

Follow up study on women doctors' HRT use:

Link:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?Db=pubmed&Cmd=ShowDetailView&TermToSearch=16096171&ordinalpos=1&itool=EntrezSystem2.PEntrez.Pubmed.Pubmed_ResultsPanel.Pubmed_RVAbstractPlus

UK women doctors' use of hormone replacement therapy: 10-year follow up.Isaacs AJ, Drew SV, McPherson K.
Department of Health and Social Sciences, Middlesex University, London, UK.

OBJECTIVES: To determine changes in the prevalence and duration of use of hormone replacement therapy (HRT) by women doctors over 10 years. METHODS: Questionnaire survey of 1234 UK women doctors (randomized, stratified sample), compared with a similar survey in 1993. RESULTS: In women aged 50-64 years, the age-standardized prevalence of ever-use of HRT had increased from 53.4% in 1993 to 66.2% in 2003 (p<0.001). There was a marked reduction in uptake by women under 50 years, while the age-standardized prevalence of current use in women aged 50-64 years was unchanged at 38.1%. The discontinuation rate in this age group had increased from 27.8% to 42.4% (p<0.001). Over 20% of women aged 65-74 years were still using HRT. The median duration of HRT use was 8.1 years by current users and 5 years by past users. The major indications were symptom relief and osteoporosis prevention. Current users of HRT tended to have more definite views about the potential risks and benefits of long-term use than past or never-users. CONCLUSIONS: The proportion of women doctors starting HRT increased after 1993, but uptake and continuation rates have now both declined, consistent with prescription data, probably reflecting the changing nature of the evidence base. However, many women doctors still intended to continue long-term HRT.

PMID: 16096171 [PubMed - indexed for MEDLINE]

[flutterby]

Hi Patricia

Very interesting, good link too. Mind you statistics have never been my strong point.

Flutterby

[SevenOfNine]

I wonder how many women doctors have tried to come off it (unsuccessfully)?

I think to HRT or not to HRT is a VERY personal and individual choice.  Some suffer many symptoms (my own 3 years of hot flushes/night sweats is driving me MENTAL  ), in the end some are desperate for relief and who can blame them.  In most cases HRT will bring back a quality of daily existence which went down the plughole on day 1 of the meno hitting us.

Every day I think "just take the stuff and be cool for a change", but I'm 3 years into this - surely there's an end in sight........!

My problem is the lack of knowledge of some who are on it.  No idea that you do not 'bypass' the menopause symptoms.  When you come off HRT you will catapult right back to square 1, you don't suddenly start making your own hormones when the artificial ones are withdrawn.  The best you can hope for is to minimise the return of symptoms with a controlled and lengthy withdrawal from HRT as opposed to the 'natural' peaks and troughs the rest of us must tolerate.

Many have not researched the difference between bio-identical HRT and conjugated horse pee ones.  In UK no natural progesterone is available to combine the oestrogen with, so we are left with only a synthetic choice.  Many do not choose which one they would like to try, merely taking the first prescription given.  Make no mistake, a GP in UK is driven by PRICE, Elleste Duet is very popular here - it's also the cheapest.  Coincidence??

When I visited my GP 3 years ago he gave me a prescription for HRT and delivered his "on it for maximum 5 years or until I was 55" rule (same thing for me).  He had no answer when I asked "but what then"?  He had absolutely no alternative he was willing to give me at that time and I was sent on my way.  I chose not to take it (make no mistake, it is HARD). 

The medical profession cannot seem to agree from 1 year to the next whether or not HRT is 'safe', so we are left to weigh it up ourselves.  Personally, I don't believe it 'causes' breast cancer, but I do believe it may make those women predisposed to BC move along more rapidly towards it.  Many BC tumours have hormone receptor cells, sufferers are frequently given Tamoxifen to 'knock out' their oestrogen after a BC diagnosis and suitable treatment.  Do I want to put and artificial version of oestrogen and progesterone into my body after it has reached a time of life when it has decided it is no longer needed?  Lets face it, the human body is an incredibly sophisticated machine, does it know what's best do you think?

Enough waffle from me.  At the end of the day no woman should feel she has to justify taking HRT nor justify not taking it.  We are responsible for our own bodies and must guage quality of daily living and make our own choice.  Thankfully we now have the internet, a godsend for info and advice.  Good luck to all of us, whatever we decide.   

[flutterby]

Hi SevenofNine
Couldn't imagine the Borg having meno symptoms does the whole collective suffer - sorry, quite a Star Trek fan myself too.
Seriously though It definitely wasn't waffle what you said - it was very interesting

I don't know whether I subscribe completely to this 'just delaying the inevitable'.How many menopausal symptoms are due to the wildy fluctuating levels of hormones, rather than lack of them. If while you are on HRT, your own hormones are kept in check but are diminishing,surely there is a chance when you come of it the symptoms will not be as bad. This may be a different time scale for different women.
I appreciate your body is not going to replace the oestrogen when you come of it and it makes sense that some symptoms would start again or even new ones. But I know several women that had virtually symptom free menopause so what is going on there.
There are so many variables, my brain just starts to boggle.
Wouldn't it be great if the menopause was taken a more seriously and a lot more research done.
I am hoping I will be like my husband's step mother - Really bad meno symptoms in late 40's, on HRT for 7-8 years came off it - no problems.
Flutterby

[Hot2Trot]

You say you are three years in SevenofNine. From the experience of women on the forums, you may be only in the early days.  I was well over two years post menopausal having had a peri-menopause of nearly five years.  I was not symptom free at that point and in view of the fact that, as you rightly say, we never produce again the natural oestrogen of the past, I cannot see how we can actually ever be symptom free again.  My mum and my MIL and in fact every older lady I know, still suffer from sweats and heat intolerance.  Poor sleeping is often mentioned and I have to wonder how much of that is actually down to menopause symptoms and not age.  I know my mum has complained for a number of years about poor sleeping and yet on the face of it, there is no real reason why she should not sleep at least reasonably well.

I do have issues with the use of horse urine products, but that is an ethical choice.  I am lucky that I have not been prescribed that and because I was started on HRT by my gynae who I see privately, I have also not had to settle for the cheapest. Fortunately my GP has agreed to take on responsibility for my HRT and has put it on repeat prescription, to be reviewed in May (or sooner if necessary).  

I was one of the most anti-HRT women you could have found.  Having started on it though I realise I was selling myself and other women short.  At 46 years of age, the benefits outweigh the negatives.  I have a number of years of working life ahead of me, not to mention a desire to have an active and fulfilling retirement.  None of this is possible when a lack of sleep at night drives me to bed in the afternoon.  Quality of life has to be a consideration and it is this that will make me fight to remain on HRT until I choose otherwise, not because my doctor has a fixation about length of time on it.

[newstart]

Hi Sevenofnine

I agree it's a very personal choice - and it's something that I change my mind about several times a day!  I still haven't been to the doctor's and got that prescription.

It's so difficult not being able to get one coherent line on this from the medical profession.  Sometimes I wonder if there is a conspiracy from certain quarters to keep us off HRT in order to save money!

For me there are other considerations, in addition to the obvious ones of relief from constant sweating, disturbed sleep, vaginal dryness and joint pains etc.  Like Hot2Trot I have to make a living and, in fact, am the breadwinner in the household.  I have experienced panic attacks which come on after/with a hot flush and I have been absolutely unable to think or function.  My work involves speaking in public and on a couple of occasions I have had to withdraw from situations which I just couldn't handle.  This has been very damaging professionally and has lost me income.

Absolutely vital to me through my life has been running and other forms of exercise - it has been a great stress reliever and an absolute pleasure.  However, I have just had  really bad cartilege injury and I can't exercise - obviously this is meno related too.

The other things is that in my family (both sides - an aunt and a grandmother) there is a history of early onset Alzheimers and, although the evidence is contradictory, HRT seems to afford some protection against Alzheimers.  (Incidentally, one of my relations was still having her periods until she was 56 and then the Alzheimers seemed to strike quickly after her periods stopped - although, of course, there may be another explanation for this.)

As Flutterby says, wouldn't it be great to know why some people 'sail through' and others suffer these symptoms?  I imagine that having a print out of your genome would be extremely valuable - then we would know what our individual risk factors are.  But that's a long way off, and, I suspect, will only be for the very rich.

Dilemmas, dilemmas!

Goodnight all,

Patricia

[Cazikins]

I have to say that without HRT I really could not do my full time job. It has given me back my confidence, I can think clearly again & I am not afraid of going into work anymore. I have job satisfaction again which is vital for me.
My decission was a hard one. I did not want to try it but about 6 months ago I completlely lost it - big time. I worried about my health & state of mind & having lost my mum 2 years ago through dimentia didn't help. I had to think about my quality of life & I still had to pay the mortgage & the bills. Giving up work or taking a pay cut for a part time job was not an option for me. OK it might sound as though I was forced into choosing the HRT route & I suppose in a way I was, but I do know that it was the right choice for me at this time of my life. I could not go on for another possibly 5 years feeling like I did. I do think & worry about how things will go when I eventually come off it but I have to get through those 5 years first, so I take each day at a time & each challenge & problem at a time & that is how I deal with it - tomorrow is another day, & I will be at my desk dealing with my work schedule as well as I did 10 years ago. I sometimes wonder though that if I did not have to work then maybe, just maybe I could do without HRT.
Now let me go & check to see if I have won the lottery tonight & can retire early & get the mortgage paid off....




Err no I haven't

Cazikins

[Taz2]

Hi Cazikins - you have posted exactly how I feel regarding HRT - I know that it is maybe only going to give relief for five years but at least I could have five more years of actually feeling ok and being able to function properly.  I was having a similar discussion with one of the teachers where I work. Over the past two years she has gone from a vibrant, energetic, positive person to someone who is unable to properly plan her lessons, control the class and remember names. She is fighting to stay off HRT as her doc sees the meno as a natural process. It is upsetting to see such a change in someone and the staff who are pre-meno are at a loss to understand where their colleague has disappeared to!

My doc has asked me what makes me think I will be better able to cope with meno symptoms at 58 rather than 53 but I think that life is never certain anyway. I could spend the next four and half years battling like I am at the moment without HRT and then die of something anyway, or I could have HRT, enjoy the next four and a half years and still die but at least I will have had a good four and a half years  Have finished my HRT diary now so will be off to see GP again in the next week or so to have another "discussion" 

I'm glad that you are feeling positive and enjoying things again. I will think positive now. Actually, my best mate made me a little sign to stick on the fridge or car or somewhere - it says "Positive Thoughts attract Positive Things" - all I have to do is remember to look at it!!

Love Taz x 

[Squirrel]

She is fighting to stay off HRT as her doc sees the meno as a natural process.

Well, so is death but we try to delay that as long a possible.   

[Hot2Trot]

sleepless in london that has to be post of the month.  Well said!!!!