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[joziel]

Well, this is all becoming a poop show. Put the Evorels on yesterday morning. They seemed to stick well. They were ginormous and very crinkly, having 3 of the huge things on.

But last night I literally slept NOT A SINGLE MINUTE. Not even light sleep. I had the weird inner tremors which feel like I'm rocking or something, as well as tingling, and my heart beating hard and fast. I gave up at 5am and got up, took a shower, ripped off the Evorels and put one of my last few changes of Estradots on.

I don't know what I'm going to do now. I've been sobbing over my high protein breakfast. I know it's only 1 night and we should give these things time etc etc, but really these neurological symptoms come back instantly levels drop and they don't get better until levels go up. Been there before.

I had finally begun to get things figured out. I was sleeping 7.5hrs a night. I was getting more deep sleep. (All trackable on the watch.) And now this. I can't increase the gel further, I'm already on 6 pumps and we know I can't absorb more than that. I don't absorb Sandrena (tried that with the same outcome as this).

There is only the Estraderm patch left to try (which notoriously doesn't stick well and I don't hold out much hope for) or I'm going to end up on oral. At least temporarily, until Estradots come back.

I will make an appt on Monday with my Newson Health dr. But she can only prescribe products which are actually available in the UK, so it's not really going to help unless she has a secret supply of Estradots stashed somewhere. I was hoping I could just get by for a few weeks and perhaps there is some slow trickle of them into the UK and now everyone else has been switched off them, perhaps there will be some again....

Why oh why don't we have access to injections in the UK? I don't understand that at all. Perhaps not for everyone as the first line of HRT, but for desperate situations and poor absorbers like me.

[Gnatty]

Hi there I am so sorry you must be feeling desperate. I think I have mentioned this before so please don't be annoyed! Is it just possible that actually the opposite happened? That you absorbed way more rather than way less. Some of us do absorb better on Evorel and the symptoms you describe so sound like what happens if you take too much oestrogen. I know in your experience it's the other way round but I think it's worth just flagging it up on the off chance.

[sheila99]

Perhaps use both together? The estradot will last longer and the symptoms should be less as the difference in levels won't be as great. Also worth taping them down. I use tattoo film since I've had to change to estraderm and it makes a big difference. Estraderm is 7cm square and it's impossible to find a patch of skin that doesn't move, the tape stops it lifting at the edges. I find least movement in the skin on my thigh (lower back might be better but I can't tape them on there). Or a trip to Spain? Might be cheaper than Newson and you get a holiday 

[Pippa52]

joziel - have pm'd you but site seems to be playing up either that or out internet is.... so let me know here if you don't get the message xx

[bombsh3ll]

That's a horrible way to be feeling, you know I'm a proponent of oral, I am on an oral estradiol product myself, and I just wanted to say the theoretical risks of taking it orally are neither here nor there vs that level of physical and psychological suffering and I would just get some pills.

The conversation of estradiol to estrone in the body is bidirectional, and simply cannot be more harmful than going without.

Also there is no good evidence that oral estradiol with micronised progesterone results in higher breast cancer risk - oral has historically often been combined with a progestin and any small increase in risk is from that.

It doesn't have to be your forever treatment choice but is a better temporary option than rustling like a human crisp packet each time you move and feeling like 💩.

[joziel]

Thanks guys. Gnatty, I don't think it's because I'm too high because these are my old symptoms back again from being too low. I did wonder about being too high, because I had some ovary pain in the evening and when I went to bed right under where I'd put the patch - but I now think that was my body trying to make some more estrogen because my levels had dipped. I used to get that back when my levels were low and I'd first gone on HRT.

Sheila I don't really have enough to use long term both together. I didn't have any probs with the Evorel sticking, in fact they stuck better than the Estradots - I am a bit worried about that with the Estraderms from what I've read but will stick them down. I can also experiment with putting them on my butt where I have more fat rather than my stomach in case that helps absorption.

Are they available in Spain then? I thought they were out of stock everywhere. And do you need a prescription in Spain? Anywhere in particular, in Spain, or just anywhere?!

bomb, I'm not worried really for those reasons with oral so much as it isn't possible to test levels if I use oral because of the metabolites so I am just guessing and treating symptoms with dosage. I don't know how that is going to work and if my GP is going to let me increase to the 4-6mg I might need orally (I guess I could buy it privately till Estradots come back) but still feel like I am flying blind without being able to compare levels. ChatGPT says that absorption orally can vary and this isn't good for neurological symptoms such as I have. And I'm already on thyroid meds, including T3 and T4, plus testosterone, so if I take oral estrogen it's going to push my SHBG up and I might not have any free levels of anything available... 

[Shirazette]

I've just received 3 months worth of Estradot with no delay (yesterday). I'm with a private meno specialist and think they use the same pharmacy as Newson so you might well be able to get some quickly via them. I received them the day after I applied.

[joziel]

That’s amazing. Whats the pharmacy? Is it CloudRX? That’s who Newson use. I think they might use Smartway as well but they are resourceful and probably will use whatever pharmacy has it.

I’ll be calling them on Monday to book my review ASAP and will fill out the prescription form in the meantime.

[Shirazette]

Yes, that's right, Cloud Rx . Fingers crossed for you tomorrow.

[joziel]

That's great thanks. I've filled out the prescription request form but they told me on the phone last week that it is more than a year since I saw the doctor so they don't know if the doctor will honour this without a follow-up annual appointment with me. I'm a little peed off about this because I had a phone consult in August last year (which resulted in a letter the dr wrote to my GP too) and I was told this was the date my 'year' was up, when I asked in January. If it's now going to delay getting Estradots I won't be happy    But I'm calling tomorrow to book the annual review anyway...

[Seasidegirl]

I'm still able to get Estradot via Newson, I think it is CloudRX but I'll check later.   

I had just started thyroid treatment for overlapping symptoms in January when I couldn't get Estradot via the NHS and I couldn't cope with the idea of cushion at the same time as starting the thyroid med.   Luckily my original Newson appointment was still inside 12 months. 

Whilst I accept that there is a bigger Estradot shortage from the manufacturer I do think this is also an NHS created issue as they won't post for Estradot and the supplier has other customers who will pay. 

[joziel]

If this were a male hormone issue, the government would be building the Estradot factory - you can be sure of that 

I have filed a prescription request via Newson and pleaded to be prescribed some given the misinformation re when my review was due. I've also made an appointment with my Newson doctor but could only get one in 2 weeks time.

The other prob is that I really need Estradot 100s, given the dose I'm on. Because a box of 25s and a box of 100s are almost the same amount. At the moment I am putting on AN ENTIRE BOX of 37.5s at each patch change. I currently have 8x 37.5s stuck on me. And I can't afford that, privately. So if I buy them myself, I really need 100s.

On Weds I will be trying 5x Evorels and sticking some on my bum. This is all ridiculous. Why oh why can't we have injections available in the UK? I don't understand why we are sticking things on ourselves, dealing with absorption, and waiting hours for gel to dry and risking contaminating family members with it - when in the US you can just give yourself a quick shot twice a week and forget about it the rest of the time? Is there some UK law about giving yourself shots? But diabetics can inject insulin? Why are private UK doctors not offering shots? Does anyone know?

[sheila99]

Flights to the US are cheap... (I wonder why no one wants to go there now  ). It might just be a licensing issue though I understand they have a different approach to safety. Here you have first to show it's safe before it's licensed, there I think you can use it first and they withdraw it if it's found to be unsafe. What about an implant? You used to be able to get here though I'm not sure if you still can.

[laszla]

You can still get implants here - I get E2 and T at Chelsea and Westminster (NHS) and they have made all the difference in terms of absorption

[joziel]

laszla, what is the dosing like with implants? If you get the dose wrong you can't take it out....  How did they start you out? Do you get multiple pellets or just more stuff in one pellet if you need to increase? What happens to the pellet afterwards, does it break down in your body or stay there forever or what? And do you know if they are available privately? I can't now wait months and months for an NHS referral...

I'm fine with T. For some reason I have zero problem absorbing Testogel. In fact, I have to use LESS than the amount recommended for women or my levels go too high. Why the Oestrogel made by the same company I just can't really absorb, I've no idea.