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[lor.com]

 I’m sorry if this is too negative but feel I should post as if I’d read anything like it I wouldn’t have wasted my time trying it.
Only used two ‘tablets’ and felt wretched. Period like pains although I’m most definitely post menopause. Felt sick. Had horrible ‘heavy’ feeling. Already feel so much better. Just have to resign myself to zero intimacy. My husband thankfully isn’t that bothered so that’s how it will be!

[CLKD]

 There are several VA treatments and U may find that those symptoms will resolve .  How did you use the Vagifem ?  nightly ?

It's awful to get such side effects which can be very off putting  .  Perhaps 'ovestin' would suit you better ......... if left untreated the vagina can in rare cases meld together which requires surgical intervention.  U could try 'ovestin' on the outer labia initially to ease symptoms there ......... and perhaps put a little 'ovestin' into the vaginal canal to see if you get a reaction.

Trial and Error can be so tiring. 

[Lesred]

Hi lor.com

I feel like you in that don’t want to post anything too negative but I tried vagirux in January last year and lasted 11 difficult days, well 9 really as first 2 days weren’t too bad but I was so desperate to find something to help and I just kept feeling more grotty and more uncomfortable that I abondoned it, so you are not alone. But I second CLKD that ovestin/ cream might be a better option?

I was so wary and had already tried the cream internally with loading dose and struggled again however this time I was suffering more on the outside so I took it much more tentatively on the advice of the nurse ( and ladies on here) and just gradually added more slowly and smaller amounts, I also didn’t use the syringe, just my finger and it was much better, the beauty of the cream is you can be a little more in control.

Anyway I just wanted to say I hear you and agree it’s not as straightforward for some of us. I appreciate your honesty as it makes those of us who have had side effects not feel quite so mad .

Lesred x x

[SundayGirl]

I'm another who has issues with local oestrogens. Unfortunately. 

Currently waiting for referral to clinic to discuss other possible options.

Hugs.

[Cedrus]

I also have tried estriol and blissel and both made me sore inside and I felt that it made my symptoms worse so I have stopped so at the moment I am using yes moisturiser and lube and victory oil which seems to be helping and when the itching starts I use salcura topida  I was never convinced about using hrt products but because it is now affecting my bladder thought I would try it but I must be one of the ones that what ever compound they put in these products it doesn’t agree with me.
Has anyone tried serenity 20-1 as I was thinking of trying that.

[CLKD]

KY Jelly can be soothing too.

Sometimes symptoms are due to the vaginal walls being thin and delicate, aggravating with soreness which becomes intolerable.  Yes and 'slyc' products have good write ups on the Forum.

[MrsMitch]

lor.com my Menopause consultant suggested I look at PWHCF which is a website for health care professionals so do you have to make an account as one (straightforward I did it easily) then search for 'vaginal oestrogen comparison table' because as others have said, there are lots of different treatments.  You don't gave to settle for no intimacy, I'm sure you'll find the right treatment there. Then you can write them down and get your GP to prescribe one at a time to see what will work best.

[Hurdity]

Hi lor

Sorry to hear about your discomfort on starting vaginal oestrogen.

The first thing I would say is that for women who are not already on HRT and especially if post-menopausal, because the vaginal tussues are so thin and atrophy has set in, it can take some while for the vaginal oestrogen to become effective and that may well include initial discomfort, in a body that has not had extra oestrogen for some time.

Research has shown that there is some systemic absorption of oestrogen initially, and this especially will be what some women are experiencing as side effects,  but once the tissues are plumped up properly, then the absorption is minimal. Those of us already on systemic HRT or who are peri-menopausal are unlikely to notice any systemic side effects due to the tiny amount of oestrogen being absorbed - negligible compared with the amount in HRT, or our own oestrogen if still fertile and with our own natural cycle going on.

The initial "loading" period of time (for taking local oestrogen daily until tissues are plumped up and dosage can be reduced to the lower maintenance dose) is recommended at two weeks but for some women it takes three weeks or even longer, so I urge you to see if you can tolerate some side effects for say 4 weeks and see if they subside?

The other thing is, Ovestin is often recommended but there is another estriol cream which is TEN TIMES WEAKER that estriol, so is given in larger doses, but may not lead to the same amount of irritiation. This is known as Estriol 0.01% cream (Ovestin which is discontinued under that brand name, is now a generic known as Estriol 0.1 % cream -  very confusing). You might like to try the weaker one if you haven't already done so.

Imvaggis is a waxy estriol pessary which may well be gentler on your tissues than the Vagifem, because the waxy substance melts in your vagina so itself provided a bit of lubrication in addition to the estriol. I haven't tried these though I used to use some similar pessaries years ago, before I started systemic HRT, and found them very good.

There are tablets too for those who can't tolerate anything internal.

All the products are listed here: https://www.menopausematters.co.uk/local.php

Intimacy aside - and that's your decision - vaginal atrophy issues don't get better on their own so even without intimacy there can be increasing dryness, discomfort, itching, infections etc with age so the sooner you find something you can tolerate, the better.

Your GP should work with you to find a product that suits you.

Hope this helps and all the best

Hurdity x

[joziel]

What Hurdity says ^^^

If you are post-menopause and haven't had any estrogen for a while, the lining will be thin. That means when you first start to use local estrogen, you will absorb a bit systemically. This will go away!!! So don't give up too soon. It just needs to be taken long enough that the lining is repaired and then you stop absorbing it systemically.

There is also Intrarosa pessaries you can try, which isn't estrogen - it is DHEA - which is the precursor to both estrogen and testosterone, again both local. Testosterone is thought to be really useful for vaginal atrophy as well as estrogen. And because it isn't estrogen itself going up there, you might not get the same systemic effects.

And there is the e-string which is basically a squidgey circle thing which goes around the cervix (you can't feel it) and lasts a whole month before it's replaced. You can google that one for more info.

[Wrensong]

I also had some systemic effects from Vagifem when I first started it a few years postmenopause before I was on any systemic HRT, but these did pass after a couple of weeks.  Agree with what Hurdity says & second Joziel's point about testosterone being thought an important factor in GU health.  Although I know Blissel was mentioned earlier as unfortunately also having caused unwanted effects for one member, I believe this vaginal product contains the lowest measured dose of Estriol (already a weak form of oestrogen) currently available, so may be more easily tolerated in terms of any initial systemic side effects for anyone new to all forms of HRT or whose vaginal tissues are especially sensitive.

Joziel, I think the Estring replacement interval is 3 months rather than 1.
Wx

[SaraUK]

I know exactly what you mean. I’ve been suffering for a year, no improvement. Horrible bladder UTI sensations, horrendous external burning that actually stated after 7 months of every other day vagirux.

- Systemic hrt for 2.5 years

- Vagirux every other day for 7 months, then daily up to mid March.

- Vagifem for 3 weeks

- horrible anxiety, sweating, shaking on start of 6 weeks continuous utrogestan. Diagnosed with progesterone intolerance. Put on 12 week cycle with 2 week provera. Temporary I presume.

- Mid March I stopped topicals all together. Had enough. Unbearable chemical burn, sunburn sensation.

- started testosterone end of March to see if bladder improves

- ultrasound fount 2 fibroids (5cm and 1cm), retroverted uterus, 2.3m endometrial lining.

- reduced oestrogel down to 1 pump

To date it’s 50% improved but they’re daily (burning, bladder full feeling).

I posted thread “losing hope” yesterday with more details.

[joziel]

Sorry, my bad about the replacement estring timing...

[Wrensong]

No probs Joziel.  Your point about it being long lasting compared to other methods was the important thing.
Wx