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[Katymac]

I also have fm, cfs, hypermobility I have recently had a course of chiropracty and a very busy weekend

But I think the joint, muscle, bone pain started before the weekend it got worse after

I hesitate to hang my problems on the extra hrt/testosterone but they would be the easiest to reduce

Is this a known side affect?

Evoral 75 Norethistrrone & 1 pump of testogel (I think) every 3 days

[sheila99]

It's supposed to he the other way round, oestrogen cured my joint pain.

[Katymac]

Yes that's what I thought

But my illnesses are flexible and I could be going into an inflammatory phase

I wonder about stopping my testosterone for a week or so and seeing if that changes anything

If it doesn't going back to evoral conti for  a few weeks to see if that helps

And if it doesn't then we know its me not meds

[sheila99]

What are the timescales? Is testosterone new? Did you have muscle weakness/poor muscle tone as a meno symptom before T? Just asking because I did and T has cured it, even pelvic floor which I hadn't associated with it. If you have hypermobility I imagine losing muscle tone will make things worse. I think this is quite rare so may not apply to you, for most people libido is the main indicator of low T.

[Katymac]

I started the testosterone 18th August

The fibro and cfs does cause a fair amount of pain but this is some of my worst

Muscle weakness/poor muscle tone are a Symptom of both fm/cfs as are poor recovery fron exercise and inability to increase muscle usage, training will make be worse not increase my stamina or strength

I've not really put the hypermobility into the picture as it's never been a focus (no pain just annoying instability)

[Julia Dizzy]

Hi Katymac,
I read somewhere that estrogen can increase inflammation in the body, not sure how accurate that is?

All I know is I have been on HRT (gel,utro and Tostran) for 4 years and have just tried to increase to 2 and a half pumps and my body feels like an old woman (am 67) with so much fatigue and joint/muscle pain which seems to be getting worse. I have peripheral neuropathy in my legs, hands and feet, a legacy from chemo which finished in Dec 2021 and seems to be the cause of tingling legs and buzzing feet.

The only thing HRT has helped is my hot flushes - and the VA to a degree.

I have just thrown caution to the wind and decided to pack it all in for a 3 month trial, also to see my Gp as to why my joint and muscle pain is so bad all over my body just now and hopefully get some bloods done.

I sleep ok but get out of bed exhausted, even having a shower is tiring!! I'm sure I have fibromyalgia as I feel so rubbish most of the time. I truly sympathise with you x

[SarahT]

I am on estradot 125 and mirena. Hrt, now I seem to have the better strength of oestrogen, ( despite bloods showing only 300), has  improved my night sweats, VA, though I use Ovestin every night and YES moisturiser. My mood swings which were very cyclical were getting dangerous, and these combining a higher hrt and a low AD have eased along with awful anxiety.

What has got significantly worse over the last 9 months or so have been worsening joint pain, muscle stiffness and weakness, and bouts of extreme tiredness. Raynauds has kicked in significantly.

I had hoped hrt would ease these pains as it has done for some on this forum. I now sense that there is an underlying problem which is not hormone related.
Am currently undergoing tests via my gp surgery to work out what may be going on.

[Katymac]

It's complicated isn't it

I do wonder if it's a too high dose of norethisterone but I cant work out how muchbi should be taking

Or as I said I could be in an inflammatory phase of one of my conditions

GP suggests antidepressants everytime I visit so no help there

[SarahT]

It really is. My gp is not wanting to offer testosterone to me. I have osteoarthritis in both hips and was having physio but that had to cease once these other symptoms became worse. The physio suspects fibromyalgia or Rheumatoid arthritis. To be honest my heads all over the place and I haven't got a clue now.

It seems unhelpful your gp just suggesting ADs. So you have a contact with anyone overseeing the fb of cfs? Or checking on any forums related to these two conditions for advice?

[Katymac]

No-one is looking at the fm/cfs - my diagnoses are quite old (cfs 1996, fm 2008) and are therefore ' unsafe' according to my gp so I can't be referred to the pain clinic

Neither can I be rediagnosed as I already have a diagnosis or seen my the rheumatology dept

Sigh

I wonder about going back to evoral conti and just trying the testosterone

So bloody confused

[Katymac]

This is interesting about the amount of norethisterone - I could take a quarter of a tablet each day and that would be enough! But that's for 50 oestrogen and I take 75 so maybe half a tablet a day



Evorel Conti patches:
Transdermal oestradiol with continuous progestogen (norethisterone)
Femseven Conti patches:
 Transdermal oestradiol with continuous progestogen (levonorgestrel)
Alternatively, women can consider transdermal oestradiol delivery with an alternative
progestogen by taking oestrogen and progestogen separately:
 Oestrogen:
Evorel 50 patches
Estradot 50 patches
Estraderm 50 patches
Femseven 50 mono patches
Progynova TS 50 patches
Elleste MX 40 patches
Or an oestradiol gel preparation such as Oestrogel or Sandrena:
Oestrogel one measure twice a day equivalent to the oestrogen dose in Evorel Conti
Or Sandrena 1 mg sachet a day would be equivalent to the oestrogen in Evorel Conti
Or oestradiol spray Lenzetto three sprays (40 mcgm) equivalent to the oestrogen dose in
Evorel Conti
+
Progestogen:
Micronised Progesterone: Utrogestan 100 mg orally at night daily on continuous basis
Or Provera 5 mg orally daily on continuous basis
Or Norethisterone 5 mg orally daily on continuous basis (1mg would be sufficient for use in a
continuous combined regimen but not available in stand-alone preparations)

[sheila99]

Is there a reason you're on norethisterone? Have you tried Utrogestan? It's bio identical so theoretically better than the synthetic ones. No guarantees of course as we all seem to react differently. You can use it vaginally so there's less on your system.

[Katymac]

I tried it when I couldn't get evoral and it made me so queasy and sick

So the consultant said why not stay on the same med that is in evoral

[Hurdity]

What dose of norethisterone do you take? Ah I see you've quoted from somewhere about the dose. Yes 5 mg may well be contributing to your negative side effects if that's what you're taking. Could you swap to Provera as you could then take it at the required dose for HRT (doses are not comparable between different progestogens)

Hurdity x

[Katymac]

I'd probably have to pay for another private appt & I can't really afford that right now

My gp is of the "one size fits all" school of thought - so thinks evoral sequi is for everyone - I had to fight to get conti