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[vintagefiend]

Hello,

I'm post menopause and so totally fed up with the prescription patches and gels that are recommended/gold standard- I just feel terrible on them!
I feel wired and restless yet depressed on the smallest amounts and try to gradually increase to proper doses and basically waste my bloody life- it's been years of patiently feeling crap in the hope that I'll ultimately get there

I don't understand it- the first time I used prescription estrogel it was amazing but this hasn't lasted.

I have no ovaries and am 51- I was post meno when I had them removed but am certain the op left me feeling worse (or maybe I'd have felt like that anyway?) I very much want to take something. I don't feel great on nothing, plus I want to look after my bones and just feel somewhat normal moodwise

I admit to some skepticism regarding biovea- but I've definitely finished with the conventional stuff and would love to hear what anyone has to say re biovea estriol

obviously I don't need progesterone cream but would be open to trying it if it seems like a good idea.

thank you for any help

[Kathleen]

Hello vintagefiend

I completely understand your frustration with all the prescription treatments. I have tried most of them and I still feel emotionally unstable most of the time. Fortunately I have reached a point where my few remaining physical symptoms are controlled on 50 mcg of Sandrena gel and a small progesterone pessary on alternate nights. My moods however still swing about and I hate it.

I haven't tried biovea but I have started to take vitamin D which can help bones and mood so perhaps this is also an option for you.
There is a lot online about the benefits of vitamin D and how best to take it so maybe worth a Google?

I am sorry that I can't help you further but you are not alone and I wish you well.

Take care.

K.

[vintagefiend]

Hi Kathleen-

thanks so much for the kind message- I'm so sorry that you are having a similar experience.
Interesting that you mentioned vitamin d- I checked mine recently and it is low so have been taking a supplement for a month or so. I definitely want to keep on top of anything else that might cause problems.
I've currently stopped the patch and recent- private- test duly shows v low oestradiol- which is corroborated by my feeling flat and lethargic but this is much better than when I was on it!
I'm waiting for some over the counter prog cream (and estriol) to arrive from the usa and I'll be sure to update on here.
there's another thread on here (alternative therapies) that I posted on re all this and I had some good advice and just feel less alone- it's this one  Re: "Has anyone used natural progesterone cream eg Biovea?"
just if you fancied following it yourself
I tried a fraction of a patch today due to the lethargy but had to take it off within the half hour- I really don't think it's for me any more and as i say, i feel so much worse on it
It sounds like you've got ground down by the constant trialling of different hrts too- maybe, just maybe, I'll have something good to report soon
take care and thanks again

[Bunny4169]

Hello Vintagefiend,

I was going to private message you, but couldn't as I haven't posted on here too often, though I'm constantly reading comparing experiences. I tried the Biovea Estriol cream, and progesterone cream, but maybe I don't absorb cream too well? I've tried so many things, but am now fairly happy on Femoston 1/10.

 I still have some Angelique, after trying it for a year?

[vintagefiend]

Hi Bunny,

thanks so much for getting back to me!
I would very much like some angeliq- thank you
So should I message you with my address- will you'll see it?!
Did you see my PM to you- sent earlier today-i'm assuming you did
great that you're "fairly" ok on femoston- it's something else I'll bear in mind
I've forgotten why you had to change from angeliq- would you mind telling me
although I feel like I've tried everything, I realsie there's a host of progs I haven't yet tried and also I've been messing around with topical oestrogens all this time (8.5 years!) and am very interested in the possibility of tablets.
are you on testosterone?
sorry! lots of questions!
I'm currently waiting for the prog cream and estriol from biovea- I will certainly give them a go- as you say, they may well work but it's good to have other options up my sleeve
thanks,
Vintage x

[Furyan]

Hello,

I'm post menopause and so totally fed up with the prescription patches and gels that are recommended/gold standard- I just feel terrible on them!
I feel wired and restless yet depressed on the smallest amounts and try to gradually increase to proper doses and basically waste my bloody life- it's been years of patiently feeling crap in the hope that I'll ultimately get there

I don't understand it- the first time I used prescription estrogel it was amazing but this hasn't lasted.

I have no ovaries and am 51- I was post meno when I had them removed but am certain the op left me feeling worse (or maybe I'd have felt like that anyway?) I very much want to take something. I don't feel great on nothing, plus I want to look after my bones and just feel somewhat normal moodwise

I admit to some skepticism regarding biovea- but I've definitely finished with the conventional stuff and would love to hear what anyone has to say re biovea estriol

obviously I don't need progesterone cream but would be open to trying it if it seems like a good idea.

thank you for any help

Hi Vintagefiend - sorry to hear that you’re so sen :)sitive to conventional HRT dosages, though I suspect it might also be a strength in that, like who you are, your hormone configuration is just as unique! I’m in a similar position to you in that I find that conventionally prescribed doses do not work for my sensitive biochemistry. I probably need physiological doses instead of having my receptors being bashed relentlessly with a sledgehammer! I’ve just ordered the Biovea Estriol cream as I’m aiming to reduce the ‘sledgehammer’ dose of the oestrogen patch (I cut an Evorel 25 latch in half) so maybe we can compare experiences at some point? Mine won’t arrive u til next week apparently but let us know how you get on   

[vintagefiend]

Hi Furyan-

thanks for lovely message-
ugh! i'm afraid i couldnt tolerate the bloody cream either- i sincerely hope it works for you- if there's a scale of sensitivity to hrt i think i'm at the end of it and hopefully you're not there yet!
I agree with you re physiological doses and possibly not sodding transdermally- i'm so sick of putting stuff on my skin and it making me feel like crap! i do wonder about tablet- but there wouldnt be a small dose I guess.
so i'm off the hrt now- even the creams and starting to feel flat- pssibly i'm feeling flat cos prog takes longer to leave system- and i tried a bit of that too!
sorry i cant be the bearer of better news- best of luck to you and i will look out for your posts- i'm genuinely interested
maybe i do need a break- mabe my brain's exhausted from all the trial and error
for 2 weeks i've determined to do a workout each day and to eat well- i'm gonna see where i'm at after that.
the other thing that worries me is that my hip's been hurting for yonks and im worried it's because of lack of all the sex hormones due to having my ovaries out- i really want to be able to take stuff!!
are you in menopause- hope ok to ask?
apologies for not seeing your message sooner
take care

[Gnatty]

Just to say there are women in surgical meno that do better on tablets than transdermal. Maybe you will be too xx

[vintagefiend]

thanks so much for that gnatty and hello-

i'm off to docs soon to ask for tablets as it happens. the thing that does trouble me is that i think (or maybe assume) that generally with women who've had surgery it's a case of not being able to get high enough amounts on transdermals? and i'm this weirdo who freaks out on the smallest amount!! so will tablets help? god i hope so?
maybe it's just that the method of administration suits surgically menopausal women, as opposed to amount.
i'm not making much sense as pretty foggy

I do hope you're ok- i like hearing good news stories- hope your sleep sorted xx

[Furyan]

Hi Furyan-

thanks for lovely message-
ugh! i'm afraid i couldnt tolerate the bloody cream either- i sincerely hope it works for you- if there's a scale of sensitivity to hrt i think i'm at the end of it and hopefully you're not there yet!
I agree with you re physiological doses and possibly not sodding transdermally- i'm so sick of putting stuff on my skin and it making me feel like crap! i do wonder about tablet- but there wouldnt be a small dose I guess.
so i'm off the hrt now- even the creams and starting to feel flat- pssibly i'm feeling flat cos prog takes longer to leave system- and i tried a bit of that too!
sorry i cant be the bearer of better news- best of luck to you and i will look out for your posts- i'm genuinely interested
maybe i do need a break- mabe my brain's exhausted from all the trial and error
for 2 weeks i've determined to do a workout each day and to eat well- i'm gonna see where i'm at after that.
the other thing that worries me is that my hip's been hurting for yonks and im worried it's because of lack of all the sex hormones due to having my ovaries out- i really want to be able to take stuff!!
are you in menopause- hope ok to ask?
apologies for not seeing your message sooner
take care

Vintage - awwww it sounds awful (and highly frustrating) for you! In the year that I’ve been ducking and diving trying to control the unacceptable weight gain and fluid (which affects my mental health) I now feel nearly ready to go for a ‘hybrid’ approach. This might be a mix n match between NHS prescribed estrogen and compounded or OTC progesterone. I’m nearly 3 years post.
As it happens, I read a post on here from a lady years back who started to take utrogestan orally every other day and thought I might give something like that a try before starting the NOW progesterone cream. Like you, I don’t relish the idea of progesterone cream because you have to continually manage rotating the site of application. That’s one of the reasons I understand there are caveats to using progesterone cream. Plus - it’s just the idea of slathering different creams on!

I really hope you find the combo that works for you - like many ladies here, it feels like an emotional drain trying to adjust this n that to help feel even half normal again (I was gonna quit the whole lot last week as don’t enjoy looking 5 months pregnant unless I am tut tut). Please keep coming back to let us know how you’re doing off HRT but what ideas you might have for coming back on it!

P.s. progesterone is known to take a loooong time to leave the system (weeks) so maybe give it time and give your body a level playing field before considering your options again… x

[vintagefiend]

Furyan

thanks once again for your reply- it's certainly got me thinking! I think you may be right re the prog still being in my system- yesterday I felt very depressed and today less so- so I'm going to be disciplined, leave it all for a bit and then re-start

have prescription for elleste solo- kind of scared to take when I do but I'll certainly keep you posted.

The hybrid approach does sound interesting- I wondered whether to try the prog cream or utro again once I'm stable (please universe!!) on oestrogen. Maybe I just couldnt handle prog with v little oestrogen

must say- find i've lost a couple pounds off the oestrogen- so yeah could be responsible for bloating- i hadnt realised that

I managed to do a workout today (no way yesterday) and venture to shops- I see this as a win and really appreciate any times where I don't feel completely awful!! I agree that weight has an impact on mental health- don't think I appreciated how much before and not just because miserable being fat- although that's one thing- but I think it messes with lots of internal mechanisms which conspire to make you feel unhappy.

I dont necessarily feel better mentally after my workouts BUT i'm sure they help cumulatively (i need to stick at them!!). I am a person who has lived a sedentary adult life (unless you count raving in the 90s ) so this being healthy is all uphill for me but i'm just doing a bit at a time

fingers crossed for you and the biovea

[Furyan]

Furyan

thanks once again for your reply- it's certainly got me thinking! I think you may be right re the prog still being in my system- yesterday I felt very depressed and today less so- so I'm going to be disciplined, leave it all for a bit and then re-start

have prescription for elleste solo- kind of scared to take when I do but I'll certainly keep you posted.

The hybrid approach does sound interesting- I wondered whether to try the prog cream or utro again once I'm stable (please universe!!) on oestrogen. Maybe I just couldnt handle prog with v little oestrogen

must say- find i've lost a couple pounds off the oestrogen- so yeah could be responsible for bloating- i hadnt realised that

I managed to do a workout today (no way yesterday) and venture to shops- I see this as a win and really appreciate any times where I don't feel completely awful!! I agree that weight has an impact on mental health- don't think I appreciated how much before and not just because miserable being fat- although that's one thing- but I think it messes with lots of internal mechanisms which conspire to make you feel unhappy.

I dont necessarily feel better mentally after my workouts BUT i'm sure they help cumulatively (i need to stick at them!!). I am a person who has lived a sedentary adult life (unless you count raving in the 90s ) so this being healthy is all uphill for me but i'm just doing a bit at a time

fingers crossed for you and the biovea

Vintage - it’s great that you’ve started to get active and do daily routines, here’s hoping to more of that! Just be easy on yourself though

Yes, progesterone can flood the system depending on the hormone regime you’ve been on, and it can take a while to reset.

In my case, both hormones cause me water retention at the prescribed doses but utrogestan is by far the worse culprit! This is the only reason I would consider an alternative progesterone because I’ve spent a year trying this way n that to make utrogestan work and I’m not getting luck with ideas from my GP either.

Yes, the fluid/weight thing is a big thing and I think it’s hard for some people to get. My weight, health and fitness is a massive part of my life and to suddenly lose complete control of it feels like a kind of bereavement! So what you say about mechanisms conspiring to make you feel unhappy is spot on in my case. I’m determined to take back control hence why I come here to hear ladies sharing their experiences.

Thanks for your wishes about adding Estriol. I suspect I will have to go see a specialist sooner rather than later though, as my biochemistry is so sensitive to NHS prescribed doses - I know from experience that I sometimes have to go broader than what conventional medicine has to offer. x

[vintagefiend]

Hi Furyan just catching up- thanks for previous message
Just to keep you updated as we seem to be similarly sensitive:

I've only taken the 1mg elleste for 3 days and felt very depressed overnight and somewhat this morning- also the dreaded palpitations/waking suddenly it's too much- read somewhere that it's broadly equal to 1 pump estrogel/25mcg patch but this info was a bit vague and I think it's stronger!! In the bin with that- can't handle it.

I'm going to rest for day or so then try a half 25mcg patch and try to stick with it- I know it'll be hard- and i know you have had very similar experience.
hope you're ok- possibly in receipt of the biovea? feeling a bit less bloated?

I've been exercising over the last week but might give myself a rest today- only sleeping in 2 hour bursts so bit knackered. I don't work so I can have more than one 2 hour stint- just takes ages to fall back to sleep
hope you're having a reasonable day

[Furyan]

Hi Furyan just catching up- thanks for previous message
Just to keep you updated as we seem to be similarly sensitive:

I've only taken the 1mg elleste for 3 days and felt very depressed overnight and somewhat this morning- also the dreaded palpitations/waking suddenly it's too much- read somewhere that it's broadly equal to 1 pump estrogel/25mcg patch but this info was a bit vague and I think it's stronger!! In the bin with that- can't handle it.

I'm going to rest for day or so then try a half 25mcg patch and try to stick with it- I know it'll be hard- and i know you have had very similar experience.
hope you're ok- possibly in receipt of the biovea? feeling a bit less bloated?

I've been exercising over the last week but might give myself a rest today- only sleeping in 2 hour bursts so bit knackered. I don't work so I can have more than one 2 hour stint- just takes ages to fall back to sleep
hope you're having a reasonable day

Hi Vintage - thanks for checking in and good to hear from you. Hmmm I wonder if even 1mg of estrogen is too much too soon, hence the effects? I’m much like that in terms of sensitivity - I respond to even slight changes within hours!

I took the Estriol cream for 4 days and felt the effects quickly i.e. sleepiness. But I was getting palpitations too and always at night. I was on 1/2 of Evorel 25 too and 100mg utrogestan every other day. Extreme bloating and can’t even wear shoes for the bloatedness. It’s definitely water rather than fat because of how widely variable it is.

Long story short, I’m at the end of my tether trying to adjust HRT dosing, eating well and exercising whilst getting nowhere fast. I’m booked in to see a menopause doctor soon, who specialises in functional medicine as standardised dosing definitely doesn’t work for me and I need a broader approach than I’m getting atm. Whilst waiting to see them, I’ve gone back to the Evorel Conti (1/2 patch) regime I’d been on for a short time before - I need some form of HRT whilst waiting for my consultation as I need to ward off the dreaded heart fluttering that happens if I don’t!

Worse case scenario for me is Mirena or Tibolone if the upcoming consultation doesn’t help - right now I’m forced to consider all options just so I can get my body back!

For you, 1/2 patch might be a viable option provided you’re willing to stick it out for some weeks. I only say this because the Evorel Conti I was on previously started to settle slightly after couple months in terms of the ridiculous fluid retention, and this was on 1/2 patch. Only reason I stopped it was because I’d prefer all body identical hormones to synthetic versions, yet here I am taking it again…

I just don’t know atm which is why I’ll consider other options. I’ll keep you posted as to how it works out. Glad you’ve managed to exercise though - well done and keep it up! 👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽👏🏽x

[Furyan]

Vintage - I should also have said that I only took half the recommended dose for systemic Estriol and it made a VERY notable and positive difference to VA and libido. There’s definitely something to be explored further here. I came off it mainly because I booked the private consultation and don’t want anything extra (other than the standard HRT offered) to affect my blood results. I’m tentatively hopeful that the doctor will use my basic bloods to determine exactly what I need and in what proportion. Meanwhile, so tempted to reach for the Estriol again but resisting the temptation! 😎