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[Muriel]

Hi Ladies, I’m hoping someone can help me understand what’s happening to me.
On advice from meno specialist I increased Estradot to 125 and Utrogestan 100mg vaginally, that was January, I had a swop to Sandrena for @ 2 weeks due to supply issues but back on Estradot now.

Now for the last week I’ve been feeling numb and detached mentally , not anxious or stressed just numb but the most worrying thing is I can’t stop sobbing, not a few tears but full on heavy sobbing that I can’t control, it’s unbearable.

I need to understand what’s causing this,is it  too much oestrogen to progesterone?
Which hormone is it that needs adjusting?

If anyone has suffered in the same way how did you resolve it?

[CLKD]

Oh have a hug 

It is probably hormonally linked, I would cry buckets the night B4 a bleed began, even if a period wasn't due.  It's a bit of a mix for your body to take up, all that swapping.  It may be that 125 is too much, what were you using previously?   Do U have a follow-up appt. soon?

Have you had your VitD and thyroid function tested recently?  We shouldn't blame everything on menopause.

[Muriel]

Thanks CLKD 😊
Yes, definitely linked to hormones but I want to understand which one and what I can do about it, though I’m thinking progesterone is the culprit.

The menopause specialist increased my dose from 100mcg to 125 and switched me to vaginal Utrogestan which was all ok since January until now.

I take thyroxine and just had bloods taken, all levels ok  and no follow up up appointments for months.
🥴🥴🥴

[CLKD]

It's the Trial and Error that is so wearysome 

[Louise2010]

Hi Muriel
So sorry to hear this. My heart goes out to you. I have experienced this recently after increasing my oestrogel, then suffering with insomnia but uncontrollable crying too and feeling very depressed.
Despite being prone to depression this is something else -
off the scale!

I believe it’s a case of too much oestrogen and an imbalance of progesterone. Actually, zero progesterone in my case in comparison to all the oestrogen.

 Are you on any AD?
My gp put me on 15mg mirtazapine which I think is helping a lot. Plus I am taking utrogestan for 10 days currently. ( because my cervix was retained during recent hysterectomy so to make sure any cells left don’t bleed).
The night I took utrogestan and from then on in I have stopped crying and feel more like myself. I guess I will only know once I stop the utrogestan on day 11.

It’s early days and it could all turn on a dime but it’s a relief not to feel utterly miserable at the mo because the last month has been horrible.
I hope that helps even just a little a bit
Big hugs to you Muriel hang in there ❤️

[Muriel]

Hi Louise, thanks for your reply 🥰
I think you’re right about the imbalance of oestrogen to progesterone., also I think I might be intolerant to Utrogestan  - the meno clinic swopped me from oral to vaginal to see if the symptoms would ease and I was fine from January up till now, I would cry if I wasn’t already sobbing 🥴

I was on AD’s for over 3 years, I’m really sensitive to all of them as well - then through trial and error and educating myself I discovered that I wasn’t depressed I was menopausal!!  I needed my hormones balancing, also AD’s are not the first line of treatment for menopause even though doctors don’t realise that 🤦‍♀️

I hope your regime works out for you 🥰

[Kathleen]

Hello Muriel

I had a sobbing session this morning so I know how you feel. I also get the anxious, internal shaking sensation sometimes. I am with Newson Health which is a private meno clinic but at my last appointment at the end of March the doctor announced that she was leaving and didn't have any suggestions for further treatment so I've been left to my own devices!

I am a long way post meno so I wondered if I am using too much Oestrogen so I have reduced slightly in the past few days. I also recently began using Cyclogest which is a pessary progesterone because the clinic thought I was prog intolerant but the lack of balance between the hormones might also be a problem. Btw I have been taking Venlafaxine which is an AD for a long time but I have no clue whether that is helping or not.

I see that Louise 2010 has had uncontrollable crying after an increase in Oestrogel and  hopefully other ladies will be along with their stories and  some advice.

Wishing you well.

K.

[Louise2010]

100% agree that AD should not be first line course of treatment for menopause.

I’m not overly pleased Ive had to take them most of my adult life because of the stigma that still surrounds mental health. But take them I do because they keep me alive quite honestly.  I’d never tell anyone I’m on them either but on here it’s comforting to know you can be open without recrimination.

That aside, Hormones are so powerful and just a tiny little imbalance can cause really strong reactions.

Hope you find a way through and get back to balance soon. X

[Muriel]

Thank you Kathleen and Louise, I really appreciate your replies 🥰
 
I did have an appointment with Newson Health but I cancelled because I was fast tracked to NHS gynaecologist because of bleeding, that’s when I was referred to NHS meno clinic but the information was relayed to me via the gynaecologist with no hope of an actual appointment for months and Newson clinic is now 6 weeks  before you get sent the questionnaire!

I’m thinking I’ve had too much oestrogen and I’m intolerant to Utrogestan, a double whammy 🤨

I would be interested to know your dosages and what you reduced to alongside progesterone

[Louise2010]

I was on 1 pump oestrogel am
1 pump pm pea sized testim am. 200mg utrogestan vaginally for 10days.

Since hysterectomy (partial) now on
2 pumps oestrogel am pea sized testim am
2 pumps pm
At the moment I’m taking 100mg utrogestan vaginally for 10 days (on day 5)
Will see how mood goes when I stop utrogestan.

(Plus ad but not relevant)

[CLKD]

I have taken ADs since 1988-ish.  I don't tell many people, I wouldn't let them know when I went to the loo after all ;-).  With an emergency anti-anxiety medication to hand, I get through most days without problems. 

My crying was definitely hormonally linked.  I would sob the night before a bleed began, even if a period wasn't due.

[Kathleen]

Hello again Muriel

I have been with Newson Health for fifteen months and was originally prescribed Oestrogel and Utrogestan. I think we gradually increased the pumps to four and added testosterone. As I was still having emotional issues I was swapped to Sandrena gel and advised to use three sachets as this was equivalent to six pumps of gel. I was also told to use Utrogestan vaginally every other night. This was my regime about six months ago and although there were times when I felt that I was back to normal  I was also still experiencing episodes of panic and tearfulness.  I knew that I wasn't stable on this regime but I persevered hoping that things would improve. The fly in the ointment was that I noticed increasingly tender breasts and then some spotting followed by a full on bleed.

It was then change again to Cyclogest pessaries as the progesterone to use  alternate night and a reduction in Sandrena to two and a half sachets, I also reduced my testosterone a little. My mood swings have continued and although they were my only remaining meno symptom, they are very distressing and having a huge impact on my life. 

I spoke with an NHS consultant and he said that too much Oestrogen can be as problematic as too little so with this in mind I have reduced the sachets to two daily. It's only been a few days and I am still struggling emotionally and  I will wait to see if any physical symptoms return on this new lower dose.

Sorry for the essay but you did ask lol!

I hope this has been helpful and please let's us know if you find the solution to your problem.

Take care.

K.

[Muriel]

Ladies, thank you for your replies, just shows how different we all are though suffering the same with oestrogen issues.

I had an online consultation with a meno specialist today, I decided to get help as the wait for NHS clinic is forever.

By talking everything through with her we came to the conclusion that when I had my estradiol bloods taken I was on 100mcg Estradot, the reading came back as 288 - however I may not have been absorbing properly as I was just slapping the patch on without prepping my skin first but when I changed to 125mcg in January I would clean the area with water and antiseptic wipe then dry with hairdryer ( complete faff) but then I was probably absorbing the full dose and as it turns out probably  too much for me 🙁

I also had to confess that I’d stopped HRT cold turkey at the weekend 🥴
I know that’s not right but I was at my wits end and desperate and hey presto only 3 days off the oestrogen and I feel back to ‘normal’ no tears and no sobbing but the hot flushes are starting to creep back already.

The specialist wants me to have my bloods taken again, though I’m not sure how easy that will be as my surgery aren’t interested and I’m restarting Estradot @ 50mcg and she wants me to take Utro orally and no testosterone until I’m back to the maximum licensed dose of oestrogen, so will see how that goes 🤔

Kathleen can I ask, did Newson give the reason for swopping Oestrogel to Sandrena? Did you notice a difference and what is your dose of testosterone now?

Louise can I ask how you’re getting on with testosterone? You started it when on your initial dose of oestrogen, did you notice the benefit?

I hope you don’t mind me asking, please say if you do 🥰

[CLKD]

Normal is good.  MayB have a break from HRT to let your body settle?  Decide which symptom you would like to ease first, make a list of symptoms to discuss with the specialist.

Blood tests are reliably unreliable  .  Let us know how you get on.

[Kathleen]

Hello again Muriel and happy to help.

Newson Health were keen for me to keep increasing Oestrogen and it was suggested that I should try six pumps of Oestrogel. This sounded like a lot of product to apply every day so I asked about an alternative and I was prescribed Sandrena. Apparently each sachet is equivalent to two pumps of gel but the volume is much less and I I find that it dries quickly. For about four months I used three sachets as suggested but I was still having some mood changes, namely panic attacks and crying and anxiety. There were times when I felt back to normal or lovely and chilled but these episodes didn't last either so I was still on an emotional roller-coaster. I then developed increasingly tender breasts followed by spotting and bleeding so a reduction of Oestrogen was necessary.

I didn't really notice a difference in the effects of Sandrena compared to Oestrogel but as I have started to reduce the Oestrogen I have also lowered the testosterone from 0.75ml to 0.50ml. I am doing this on my own as I don't have another NH appointment until June. I hope the doctor I see then will be more helpful than the last one lol!

I hope this helps you in some way and take care.

K.