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[ATB]

You can post whatever you like, but then if it’s something like this then you’re going to get a response that takes issue with wildly false information being shared. Your naturopath nutritionist may have her opinions but if you don’t do a quick check about those statements before sharing then I do think it’s irresponsible. Even randomly posting studies is unhelpful if you haven’t any training about how to interpret them.
Imagine if every time vegan members saw people post about the animal foods they eat we posted things like that?

I’m not offended and I hope I don’t come across grumpy at you personally, you are a marvellous help to me with menopause. But I do feel strongly that we should check info like this or even don’t share things you don’t understand well enough, and I do tire of people ‘helpfully’ posting random opinion pieces for vegans benefit. We don’t get to do it back.

[ATB]

A meta analysis. Did you read the whole page? And links?

“ Zinc deficiency is not any more commonly seen in vegetarians than in non-vegetarians [277]. Zinc intake and serum levels for adolescent and adult vegetarians in developed countries are the same or slightly lower than for omnivores, but within the normal range [214,231,275,278,279]. In developing countries, vegans and vegetarians are more likely to show marginal zinc status [278] “

A meta analysis is useful but without details of the population studies you don’t understand much.

[Marchlove]

Hi ATB

I’m extremely sorry that you and I have got into this ridiculous disagreement. Likewise, you have been beyond helpful to me with all my thyroid queries and for that I am extremely grateful.

You criticised my first article posted on this issue for not having citations, but then when I post any scientific papers you criticise those too.

You are quite happy to say that it’s ‘categorically false’ that  plant base diets are high in copper but offer no scientist papers/citations to back this statement up. I made no criticism of this, why should I, that’s not what this forum is about.

So are you really saying that none of us should post studies unless we have the knowledge to interpret them?In which case none of us can post articles on here at all, according to you.

None of us on here are scientist’s, we’re all just women trying to make the best of a situation we’ve found ourselves in.

I admire you a lot ATB for you knowledge on many issues and your helpful advice to so many people.
But I do think you could have taken a kinder approach to me and my posts in this thread as it makes me feel that I should not be giving any input into,  what should be after all, a friendly discussion among friends.

That’s me done on this thread x

[ATB]

Are you being kind now? I think not.

I don’t typically post studies because most can’t interpret them. Also because it’s not up to me to disprove your assertions. You don’t provide any evidence plant based diets are high in copper. I provided a good clear article including citations from a reliable source, the US national institute of health, about copper. If you read the entire thing you’ll see it includes all the points about copper, the original issue raised, that I made.

I criticised the citations because they weren’t relevant to the point you were originally making and didn’t say what you claimed. I don’t think it’s wrong to criticise any of the links when the criticism is valid. Once you’ve offered them up then it’s open to criticism.

Yes it’s frustrating to get into a disagreement like this. But it started when you posted a really long and myth-laden opinion piece about vegan diets which wasn’t what this thread was about. Vegans get a lot of stuff like this thrown at them and I think it should be expected someone with some training in nutrition who is also vegan responds to it, especially as it was lengthy and so wrong. While we share here, it’s my opinion that posting misinformation, that is easily refuted by going to reliable sources of nutrition info, isn’t something that should happen in this context. Anyone else is free to completely disagree and argue their position too.

[Tora]

When the penny dropped that all the awful symptoms were hormonal and I started HRT I didn’t realise that one symptom would be difficult to solve. I was left with self doubt. My confidence was in pieces due to worrying that the wheels would fall off again. I didn’t feel confident in committing to socials for fear of being ill again and letting people down.
Changing nutrition, lifestyle and exercise gave me the confidence back, the changes put the spring into the step that HRT made possible.

[ElkWarning]

Hi Kathleen and others

I actually really don't know.  My daughter is a lifelong veggie (now vegan), and it's all a bit strange as me and her dad are meat eaters, but from weaning onwards she just wouldn't touch stuff that wasn't mainly plant-based.  Two things I've noticed (purely anecdotal): since she moved back home a couple of years ago, we've all pretty much been following the same diet (high protein plant-based), and we're generally more chipper.  It seems to take care of some issues, such as bloating, sluggishness, upsydownsy moods - not entirely, but we've noticed an improvement; on the other hand, said daughter has PMDD (diagnosed by the GP) and we're not sure of dietary effect because she's always been veggie (and vegan for the last 10 years or something) and so we haven't got anything to measure the symptoms against, if that makes sense.  She might be worse (god knows what that would look like) if she was a meat eater, there's no telling.

My wild assumption about all of this is that if you get a good baseline health (less carbs, reduction in refined sugar, watch your caffeine intake, etc), then you're more likely to be able to withstand the slings and arrows of outrageous fortune (hormones).  I believe (with no evidence whatsoever) that this is probably easier to achieve if you're eating 'consciously' - which (from experience) it would seem most vegans do as they're constantly having to think about how they're going to source the right food, get all the nutrients needed, find the time to cook, etc.  It makes a slack sense to me that the body would respond according to the fuel it's provided.

I would also say though that I casually subscribe to the blood group eating diet idea - partly because it was the only thing that really explained why kiddo wouldn't touch meat (she's A type).  Happy to admit this might be total hippy tosh.  Don't much care.

[Kathleen]

Hello again ladies.

I began eating plant based over a decade ago after reading Dr Michael Greger's books and looking at his YouTube site NutritionFacts.Org.  Since then I have encountered many other opinions about other types of diet but I have always made up my own mind based on what I have learned and my own experiences.

I think it is a sign of progress that there is so much debate about diets and we are free to decide for ourselves how we interpret information presented to us.  We can agree to disagree!

Wishing you all well ladies.

K.

[Tora]

I think having the choice to tap into nutrition to achieve what we want or not is fantastic. I’m plant based due to shocking school dinners/ Mum’s lack of cooking interest but not a vegetarian.
Does anybody here grow a majority of their food or planning to? I’m trying to organise food storage through winter that’s not freezer based.

[ATB]

Yes Tora, I’m growing a decent chunk of our food in a permaculture garden and planning something larger soon with a food forest. Fermenting and pickling might be worth you trying out.

[Tora]

I’m doing similar ATB and loving it! Picking what I fancy, not cooking and KNOWING what’s in my food is wonderful! This summer is about calculating what I need from yields, what involvement I need from the community and what % can go commercially. I’ve discovered an asparagus patch hidden in overgrowth, unfortunately it’s 8 foot high so missed it! 
Fermenting, pickling, canning and puréing are all needed.

[Minusminnie]

Does anybody here grow a majority of their food or planning to? I’m trying to organise food storage through winter that’s not freezer based.

You could grow things like leeks and parsnips that can stay in the ground and be dug during the winter. Personally i would stick with freezing other seasonal stuff.

and planning something larger soon with a food forest. 

Interesting. I've been looking at this since you wrote this.  May well experiment with it next year to get more out of our small veg patch and hopefully have less weeding !  Sweetcorn, runners and squash in combination sounds worth a try.

[Tora]

I prefer freezing too but have almost filled second chest freezer!
Sweetcorn, runners and squash/courgettes/pumpkin/Melons do really well together, I put a circle of potatoes (no earthing up ) /beets around mine too.

[Peana]

I've never tried it myself as I live too far north, but I'd heard that the 3 sisters combination (beans, corn, squash) doesn't grow well in the UK as our climate is so different to that of the US.  Might be worth looking into this before pursuing it. 

Fermenting is good, although first time I did my cucumbers I was a bit negligent of cleanliness and ended up having to compost the lot!  At least it was a learning experience!  Sandor Katz's books are amazing.  I've experimented with all sorts of things (even fermented porridge, which is nicer than it sounds).

With fruit, I preserve it in jars (either using a water bath, or in the oven).  I'm always a bit nervous about testing the seals after everything has cooled down, but if you do it properly, it's normally fine.  There are excellent instructions in one of Pam Corbin's books.  I've not done veggies this way though (terrified of botulism), so I tend to make krauts / kimchi / freeze (although selectively as my freezer is relatively small and we do sometimes get powercuts here).

We've got solar panels now, so I might also trying drying some fruit this year (got given a dehydrator when brother in law was downsizing).  Soft fruit grows amazingly well here, so we've got more than we can eat ourselves.  If I've time to pick it I try to get spare to our local community fridge, but I must admit, that often it goes to the birds.

Good luck experimenting.

[ATB]

Oh Sandor Katz books are excellent! I’ve grown beans and squash/courgettes etc here in uk with no problem, I have more bean plants than I know what to do with. One of the easiest things to grow so far in the uk. I’m growing some for drying this year. Haven’t tried corn though.

[Gnatty]

Prana, I totally get you re fear of botulism. This never worried me until I read Larry's Party by Carol Shields. Which is a great book but someone accidently kills a couple of people at her party with her canned beans!!! I realise canning is a completely different process but nevertheless it put the wind up me!