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[Pepski]

Hello Everyone,

I've had a good look through posts and there is a wealth of fantastic info and support here - so impressive that this resource exists and that so many take the time and trouble to help each other.

Hoping someone can help me out too as I haven't found anything that relates directly to my specific circs.

Brief as I can. 2 years ago was shocked to find I had Vaginal Atrophy (went to GP with what I thought was Cystitis). Clued up GP (she had just done a course!) gave me Estriol vaginal cream 0.01% and from the first application I knew it was the right thing for me. Great...worked well.

Until it didn't.

Last December I just seemed to become allergic to it. No other way to describe it. Caused no end of probs and what with not getting to see a GP I started with urinary probs alongside discomfort. Leaking a bit. Also coincidentally I started having flushes and night sweats again which I thought I had got through....so sleep went bye bye and I just struggled.

By January after a couple of telephone consults with GP and trying Ovestin cream (nope...not for me) plus doing a lot of research on my own...I had started Vagifem. Which didn't have such an immediate effect but I stuck with it. I was using Yes Wb and Ob by this point and Vagisan capsules at night.
By beg February I asked for HRT patches as I was in danger of just going under through rubbish sleep and feeling of not getting anywhere.

Well, something worked as the VA got back under control (yay) by March and I'm now only using Vagifem just 2-3 x a week.

BUT...The patches appear to be a double edged sword for me. No more night sweats thank heavens - so sleep means I feel better.......however, I have had 2 stonking headaches, a bit of spotting at wks 4-8 all of which I could live with but now (and I can only assume it's the patches)...."tummy trouble" .

Churning, pretty loose bowel movements (sorry!) feeling really off for over 3 weeks. In fact, I feel terrible. The churning can be constant - it's like a washing machine! Pain high up mid abdo - between my ribs.
I can't concentrate on my work - I've been swallowing Paracetomol and bought some Buscopan at the wknd. Just generally rubbish now.
I cut the patch in half 2 weeks ago to see if that helped as read here that it may be all a bit much for your system....anyway, no difference noted. GP now said just to stop. So I did. That was 3 days ago and if anything it's feeling worse.

I now have slight anxiety deep down that it's something wrong with me and I am blaming the patches where I should have been getting some attention sooner. 

Anyone cast any light? Interested to hear if anyone else also became allergic to a cream and what they did next? Anyone else get crippling churny tummy with Evorel Conti patches and can reassure me it will stop now I have removed the patch? In fact how long does it take to stop? I have no patience these days it seems (lack of sleep).

Anyone else felt like stuffing the whole bag of treatments in a bin and running for the hills?

In short I am 55.....last period 5 years ago. Was happy just on vaginal cream but now can't use it.  Feel as if I took a real dip in December which I'm only just righting from but this tummy stuff is unreal.

Which HRT patch / treatment would you look at next? I feel we have to have ideas ourselves as GPs just look to us for guidance on what we want!

I don't think I can manage the no sleep thing so I feel I will end up on something...... I read here that you sometimes have to kiss a lot of HRT frogs to find your chosen Prince.  You just couldn't make this stuff up - I thought I would be having a great time of it by this age. "Yep. Good luck with that" said the evil Menopause gremlins......

Thanks for any experiences that you can throw my way on getting sorted,
x       

[Wrensong]

Hi Pepski,    Crumbs - sorry to hear about how rough you feel.  I'm afraid I'm short of time today so can't post much but just wondered whether you've had a gall bladder scan?  Maybe have a look at NHS website for gallstones?  Otherwise IBS springs to mind.  Sorry, this feels woefully inadequate but hopefully others will be along soon to help.  Meanwhile 

[CLKD]

Hi!  keep up with the 'vagifem' nightly if necessary.

Do U keep a mood/food/symptom diary?  Might help to chart progress.

Sometimes people find that they can't tolerate food stuffs as they age, which might cause tummy upsets.

[Pepski]

Hey there Wrensong,
Thanks for taking the time to post. ( and read my essay!!! - yikes)
Yes, I already queried Gallbladder with GP - she said "stop the patches & let's see where we are next week". She really thinks it's the Evorel. Maybe she's had someone else in this position....

Last time I had a scan was 2018.
Hoping like heck it's not that of course as not fancying that path either. My Mum had shocking gallstones that caused probs before they eventually removed her Gallbladder. 

"Otherwise IBS springs to mind." - I did read you can end up triggering IBS whilst using HRT and it's also more likely in meno due to declining hormones?  So like CLKD said, worth a shot on writing things down for a bit and monitoring.

Genuinely - thank you v v much. It helps to offload & have someone say "I get it " & suggest ideas when you yourself have just had enough.

Take care!

[Pepski]

Thank you too CLKD,

I hadn't realised how much I'd waffled on before so apologies for that.
I intend to use the Vagifem more as I'm pretty sure it was the 2 products in combo that did the trick for the VA - minus the patch I could see I might suffer.

"Do U keep a mood/food/symptom diary?  Might help to chart progress".
Good idea. Will do just to see if there's a pattern. I'm obvs hoping it stops & proves to be patch related but.....pays to get my ducks lined up.

So appreciate you writing. Just can't see where to go sometimes. GP referred me to gynae in Feb as VA was so problematic - that won't be till June earliest. I hoped to get into our Meno clinic as we are lucky enough to have one & I figured it would be more use but ref is def Gynae.

Take care!

[CLKD]

U may find that you don't need the Gynae appt. if you up the 'vagifem' etc., some require it nightly. 

[Wrensong]

Please don't apologise about a long post - it helps us to get a picture of what might be going on if we have detail, especially with new members whose background we have no idea of.

Glad you've spoken to your GP about the possibility of gallstones & are already clued up about them.  I would pursue it with your GP if the pain continues after her suggested week of wait & see.  And yes to CLKD's suggestion of noting what you eat & drink to see if there are any associations with the digestive symptoms.

I did read you can end up triggering IBS whilst using HRT and it's also more likely in meno due to declining hormones?

  Mine got worse postmenopause while I was already under a gastroenterologist (not on HRT at that point) & she felt hormone deficiency would certainly be making things worse.  A gynae I'd seen a few years before said the same.

Like you, I need both Vagifem & Estriol for VA, but also systemic HRT.  As CLKD says, you may need more Vagifem than just 2-3 times a week.  I use Estriol (externally) & Vagifem, both 5 nights a week, as recommended by a well respected NHS menopause clinic a few years ago.  What a nuisance that you can no longer use the cream.  Wondering whether the Estring might suit you for continual release of oestrogen.  But simplest in the short term would be to increase the Vagifem.  5 nights a week is usually endorsed as that merely takes the dose up to equivalent of the higher strength Vagifem formulation that was prescribed in the past.

The simplest alternative to Evorel Conti if you do want to persevere with HRT (after a break as your GP's advised) would be to try another combined patch: FemSeven Conti, which has the same dose of oestrogen but a different progestogen.  Other than that there's quite a range of oestrogen products you could combine with separate progesterone/progestogen.  Many women on here like Estrogel for its flexibility, there's a newish oestrogen spray - Lenzetto & Estradot patches stick well & tend to give good absorption.  You probably know that transdermal oestrogen & the lower doses are considered less likely to trigger gallbladder disease.

Utrogestan (capsules taken orally or vaginally) is the form of progesterone most favoured by menopause authorities & many women on here use it, though it doesn't suit me, so I can't recommend it as such!

I do hope your horrible digestive probs ease soon & that you manage to find a suitable regimen to control your meno symptoms.  Keep posting & let us know how you get on.

[Pepski]

Thank you Wrensong....you have given me a lot of help here. Plenty to research and think over.

I assume I will need some form of systemic HRT moving forward with the VA - to support the Vagifem - as already I feel a difference without the Evorel patch.
I think I went into shock when everything went pear-shaped in December with the Estriol cream becoming problematic for me - I hadn't "suffered" with the VA before that because with the old cream I just didn't know I had a problem. Gone are the days eh?

I am hopeful that I can get access to the Meno clinic here when I get the gynae appt sorted (I need to see gynae as I have an ongoing Bartholin cyst prob) I see from my research that a lot of folks seem to think gynae isn't much use for getting your hormone balance sorted!

Anyway, today has been a better day so onwards and upwards as they say.

Apologies also for posting in the New Members bit. What a prize way to introduce yourself! To be honest I didn't realise I was still in there when I was typing. Shows how tired I am - no powers of concentration! Blergh.

Thanks again. I'm sure I will have questions as I research so you may well see me popping up again.

 

[Wrensong]

Oh, glad to know today has been better  .  I hope that means your tummy is settling.

I see from my research that a lot of folks seem to think gynae isn't much use for getting your hormone balance sorted!

  I think it depends on their area of special interest, but menopause clinics seem to be the best bet generally.  I saw a fab uro-gynae years ago before I'd even heard of perimenopause, for what was with hindsight probably the start of VA, but didn't know what questions to ask to make the most of his knowledge.  The admittedly young, female gynae who later did my BSO didn't seem to know much about menopause though, which surprised me.

Apologies also for posting in the New Members bit.

  No, please don't apologise.  I never notice who posts where & anyway you are new aren't you?

Yes, please do let us know how you are.

[Knittynora]

Hi Pepski I just wanted to mention that I'm having the same trouble ie. Estriol cream, it seemed to work for a while then like you I feel like it's making the VA worse. Wonder if the ingredients have changed?
I've just been prescribed  everol conti patches today, doc hoping they help with VA

[Hugsneed1958]

Try useing vagifem 3 times ovestin mixed with yes gel or vagisil prohydrate .just put pea size on palm hand mix blob of moisturiser then apply. I am 65 and no womb no hrt but told can use both Vagifem and Ovestin tril and error the low tummy cramps indicate low estrogen levels. I have done loads of research and every test going and this is what my personal experience boils down to. Hope get good gp to listen. I have grade 1 prolapse which my Dr thinks what causing tummy cramps but I know when have tummy cramps and hot sweats it's because need up my vagifem or ovestin routine. Hope this helps ladies.