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[HelloSam666]

Good luck on Monday Crispy Chick. And as has been said before, it's all very experimental, even with the professionals at the start of this journey, but also even if we find something that works, it might not have the same benefits a year later - who knows.

Once i'd figured out that i was low in progesterone (just by looking at my main symptoms), i went down the OTC progesterone cream route. It was later on that after reading some of the cream reviews - different sites (Iherb, Biovea etc) a lot of people were mentioning Dr Lee's book "what your doctor won't tell you about menopause". It had a lot of interesting information & some of the symptoms i had, he rightly said were caused by low progesterone - i am testament to that. Although he does mention too that there will be some women that need oestrogen cream too but that with both creams, it's figuring a dose that works for you, this is key and from my experience, cream gives you an easy flexible way to do this yourself.

Funny isn't it - a year ago, i wouldn't have even known about progesterone cream or what progesterone or oestrogen actually were and what they did to the body. I didn't even know what the main ingredient was in my mini pill that i'd taken for years until menopausal symptoms started and i looked up what was in it. And then i learnt about vaginal atrophy on this site and thought what fresh  hell is this - i had to look it up. It's a whole new world to deal with but as women, we will deal with it as we have to deal with everything else life throws at us. At least with age comes confidence and we won't just let things happen without asking questions and trying to find a solution that works for us personally. And a sense of humour doesn't go amiss if we can still find it ;-). Sam

[dangermouse]

Mary G - Hey! I don't think I get auras. I get heavy floaters and blurred vision but that is constant throughout the migraine m, where I think auras are more dramatic and short lived.

CrispyChick - The stop start only suited me right at the beginning where I took a week's break after the first time. It wasn't intentional as I was giving up but then tried again and my body seemed to receive the progesterone better the 2nd try. Consistent, every day, or twice a day is best I have found for the cream.

I am lots better than early peri as my oestrogen is no longer surging to sky high limits so yes things do calm down! I have had a couple of bad (silent/nausea) migraines over the past 2 years but one may have been Covid (the bad one at the beginning).

[CrispyChick]

So glad things get better dangermouse.

This is just awful. Nausea, dizziness, full ears, narky, low mood (only at times) headachy. Every friggin day.

I've just looked back. I was like this in first part of cycle last month. Then the first few days of prog capsules went even worse, then seemed to balance out the other way, so by end of prog just narkiness and headaches. Then bang, 2 days into period back to this.

So it's either made me worse, or done nothing at all.

Dangermouse - was your MG trained doc happy for u to take prog every day???

How do you split a dose of cream?? My testosterone/Dhea comes as a full pump as a measure... 🤔

[dangermouse]

Yes its completely safe to take progesterone every day (twice a day is the best as it starts to diminish after 12 hours). You can get the cream in smaller doses, like 25mg, 50mg is the usual and then you can take twice a day or more. I did get a 100mg made up for my last one but the pharmacy warned me it may be a bit chalky (which it was a little) which could affect absorption but was half the price as you just pay for the pack.

If I wanted to split what I had then I would use a contact lens case and put half of dose I had pumped out in there to keep fresh.

The breaks are more for when progesterone is used for fertility. Men use progesterone too, to help reduce xenoestrogens. I have also tried Ona's (which you can buy online without a prescription) and they also do all different strengths. I found the cream wore off more gently which is why I prefer to the lozenges.

[dangermouse]

Oh and my symptoms have always been cyclical and much worse on Days 1-3 and 9-14, with bad nausea which really escalated at ovulation. Last couple of years I have only had a couple of bleeds but I log 28 days and still have clear dips at certain times. I think it takes a few years after last bleed before things become less volatile, even with very low oestrogen.

And if you have hot flushes then you have volatility. Until they stop you have not levelled out. Only possible to know without taking any HRT though!

[CrispyChick]

Thank you. You guys are an awesome help.

So, I'm applying my testosterone/Dhea cream on my lower inner arms. Can I apply the prog in same place??? My instruction will be to take at night only (the test/Dhea I take in the morn).

Where else can I put it??? I like the inner arm as I can apply hands free.

It's really useful to have all that info about 12 hours and the ups and downs of stop/starting.

So if I ask for 12.5mg tubes, to apply twice a day, I'll be paying double 😉. Contact lens case it is. 👍

For the first month, I'll follow the prescription. I've paid a lot of money for this service 🤣🤣.

I'm only to take 25mg a day. But given my reaction to the oral 25mg dose, I'm happy to start there. Any improvement on how I feel now will be welcome.

I don't expect an overnight miracle, but I didn't expect to be worse. 😬

I'm fairly sold on switching to the cream, despite not yet speaking to pharmacist or advice from prescribing doctor.

My symptoms are at their worse day 2 onwards...i think I've stopped ovulating recently, which is prolonging the symptoms. Sigh. Today as well as my horrific nausea (with gagging) and dizziness, I have  extremely sore hair follicles. Not had that for a while, again an indication that I've sunk to my worse position 😭

[CrispyChick]

One last question - is there supposedly a difference between my expensive compounded cream and a good branded one I could buy online??? 

[HelloSam666]

Thanks so much Dangermouse for the information, so good to know i'll be fine taking it every day without a break, i was really dreading having to do this. I've just checked Ona's website, what a find! I'll place my next order from there, great it's from the UK and won't need to gauge how long delivery will be from the USA.

Crispychick, i alternate the cream on these areas: each inner thigh, each outer thigh, inside top of each arm and lower arm each side. I initially wrote down which day to do which area but now i just try to guess where i haven't put it for a few days  . I imagine it doesn't need to be an exact formula as long as it's not the same each day.

Also, i'd like to know if there is a difference between compounded and OTC creams. My only thought was that the compounded one has a level of progesterone personalised for you but i might be wrong.

[dangermouse]

Yes the compounding pharmacy (via the doctor) can make it to your exact requirement and can also combine, so you can have Estradiol, progesterone and testosterone to the amounts that suit you in one cream, for example.

Ona's does have different strengths (variation on % of progesterone but in set amount) so that gives you the flexibility to also play around.

I suspect the compounded ingredients are more superior, like the versabase carrier in my one, but Ona's is very popular and there is a Facebook group for estrogen dominance you can join - it's more women taking for fertility though who post.

[CrispyChick]

Oh man... A fb group. Just looked... That might take me down a big dark hole 

[CrispyChick]

I need to remember this, so I'll write it here.

Just spoke to my compounding pharmacy - they were very helpful.

She said as a standard rule, transdermal prog gets more into your body as oral loses a lot through metabilism. However, oral is good for anxiety and sleep as it has a calming affect, but this is mostly at higher doses. Also the cream is not as good at higher doses and not available over 100mg, so oral might be used then. But as I'm on 25mg cream should be better.

Headache withdrawl from oral is certainly a possibility. If I experience that on the cream - split my dose am and pm.

I should not feel worse after starting, but it can take a good few cycles to start working. And having taken a low dose orally, I might not have had much benefit.

She said most doctors will start you slowly. Hence my prescription fir second half of cycle only. If, after my trials, I get symptoms first part of cycle they might put me on one pump that part of cycle then 2 pumps luteal phase, as example.

Slowly slowly to get it into my body and see how I react, then prob more blood tests to see my levels.

No immediate rush to rotate area of application, but stay tuned to how you feel. Some areas may absorb better than others.

Really helpful. She's getting my cream sent out today instead of tomorrow, so I can start on day 11 of this cycle, as prescribed. 

Very helpful and kind and restored my faith in the system I have found myself in through the private clinic 😊🙏

[HelloSam666]

That sounds promising Crispy Chick. So, it potentially could have been that you weren't getting enough progesterone into your system with it only being 25mg & a tablet form.

It will be very interesting to see how the cream works for you, really hope this could be a breakthrough. As Dangermouse suggested too, a morning and night time split dose. I actually put the cream on just after i've cleaned my teeth before i get into bed, it's fantastic for my sleep.

Thank you for updating us and I'm keeping everything crossed for you!!!

[CrispyChick]

Awww folks. I'm no better  . Probably at my worst in terms, of symptoms. The pills, despite all their side affects, defo made my main symptoms ease.

Struggling every single day. Feel poisoned, woozy and sick. All day long.

That's 6 full days on the prog cream. Felt my head niggling the first few days, so I've split my dose. Seen fine taking it now.  But absolutely no improvement whatsoever. And obviously I took the oral prog last month.

Thoughts? Do I need a higher dose? Much higher maybe. Dangermouse you mentioned progesterone therapy. I've looked at that fb page - there they advocate huge doses of prog cream to help oppose the estrogen. But I'm under Marion gluck... I'd have thought they'd have years of experience in this 🤔

I've ordered DIM supplement. Anyone tried this???

Back at clinic in a few weeks.

I'll no doubt remain in hell until then. 

[HelloSam666]

Oh Crispy Chick, i've been wondering how things have been for you this last week or so. I so hoped it would help. In terms of amount to take, i tried 25mg in the morning & same in the evening for a few days, after reading that some women need much more than this. It made me feel terrible so went back to the 25mg per day. That's probably not much help to anyone though as we're all very different in our needs.

I tried DIM when i was first looking for alternatives to HRT and kept seeing this supplement being mentioned. I bought it around the time i first got the progesterone cream. It made me feel so sick - just 2 days after taking it so i stopped straight away. I was never quite sure what it was supposed to do but a lot of women were leaving very positive reviews of how it helped them.

By the way, interesting article in the Daily Fail today about bio-identical HRT https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-10411819/Why-doctors-know-little-natural-HRT-stop-menopause-wrecking-life.html#comments

I hope someone here can help you Crispy Chick with other suggestions or different amounts of progesterone cream x.

[VictoryV]

Hi CrispyChick, I was hoping you’d turned a corner and were feeling good, sorry to hear you’re not right yet. Changes seem to take so long to filter through to the body.
I considered DIM a few months ago but was concerned about articles describing it as a Testosterone/DHEA blocker. This can’t be right if Gluck clinic is prescribing it on top of a T & DHEA cream so I’ll do more research.

Thanks for posting and I hope you get to a normal, peaceful and no bloody crap place soon.

Victoria.x