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[Dandelion]

Hi

I have just come from the shortages thread and been looking through my drawers.
I have three boxes of evorel oestrogen only patches that expired in april 2019, they have 8 patches each in them, so if I can use them they will last me three months.
Do you think they will be safe to use, they are evorel 100, but I am now on evorel 75.
Thanks

[Hurdity]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's like food. The further away the expiry date is when you buy whatever it is, the more leeway there is past the expiry date ie it's an indication of how well the product "keeps". The instructions for Evorel patches say to store below 25 deg so depending where it's been stored over the hot days where we've had temps above 30 it might have deteriorated a little but it's not going to do you any harm and as it's 100 mcg and you are on 75s then if the cut down patches seem weaker just cut less off so that you are nearer 100...

I've got some out of date 50s in my drawer which I will be using if there is any delay in getting my 75s as I'm on the last box and they won't issue any more at a time

Hurdity x

[Dandelion]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's like food. The further away the expiry date is when you buy whatever it is, the more leeway there is past the expiry date ie it's an indication of how well the product "keeps". The instructions for Evorel patches say to store below 25 deg so depending where it's been stored over the hot days where we've had temps above 30 it might have deteriorated a little but it's not going to do you any harm and as it's 100 mcg and you are on 75s then if the cut down patches seem weaker just cut less off so that you are nearer 100...

I've got some out of date 50s in my drawer which I will be using if there is any delay in getting my 75s as I'm on the last box and they won't issue any more at a time

Hurdity x

Thanks Hurdity
I've just thought of something else and wondered if you could help.
Im addicted to valium which is cross tolerant to my utro, if I run out of evorel or cant get any other oestrogen (can't absorb pills, tried before) does the oestrogen affect the progesterone in any way, does it cancel it out? thanks

[Katejo]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's like food. The further away the expiry date is when you buy whatever it is, the more leeway there is past the expiry date ie it's an indication of how well the product "keeps". The instructions for Evorel patches say to store below 25 deg so depending where it's been stored over the hot days where we've had temps above 30 it might have deteriorated a little but it's not going to do you any harm and as it's 100 mcg and you are on 75s then if the cut down patches seem weaker just cut less off so that you are nearer 100...

I've got some out of date 50s in my drawer which I will be using if there is any delay in getting my 75s as I'm on the last box and they won't issue any more at a time

Hurdity x

I have been wondering this too. I have some Evorel Conti which expired in April 2019 which another member kindly sent me. I have been using them for the 3 day half of my week but wasn't sure.

[Hurdity]

Well obviously we can't say exactly what has happened to the active ingredient after expiry (they may well be some data buried somewhere on t'internet) - but the worst that can happen is that it would be not quite the strength that it was due to slight deterioration especially if it has been kept at temepratures above 25 deg, but no harm in using them. Possibly with the combi patches one of the ingredients (estradiol and norethisterone) might have degraded slightly a bit more than the other leading to a slight imbalance? Just a thought off the top of my head. But a product with a two year life isn't going to become completely useless after another 4 months. I would just carry on Katejo using them as you are doing and hope they're up to the job - if you haven't noticed any difference then looks like they are!

Hurdity x

[Dandelion]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's like food. The further away the expiry date is when you buy whatever it is, the more leeway there is past the expiry date ie it's an indication of how well the product "keeps". The instructions for Evorel patches say to store below 25 deg so depending where it's been stored over the hot days where we've had temps above 30 it might have deteriorated a little but it's not going to do you any harm and as it's 100 mcg and you are on 75s then if the cut down patches seem weaker just cut less off so that you are nearer 100...

I've got some out of date 50s in my drawer which I will be using if there is any delay in getting my 75s as I'm on the last box and they won't issue any more at a time

Hurdity x

I have been wondering this too. I have some Evorel Conti which expired in April 2019 which another member kindly sent me. I have been using them for the 3 day half of my week but wasn't sure.

Hi Katejo
Please could you let us know on here how it goes, I've got three months supply of evorel exp apr 19 so am interested.
After that I hope the shortage garbage will be over.

[Rose B]

I have some expired patches too. Asked my pharmacist about using them and was told they lose roughly 10% effectiveness after expiry. 

[Katejo]

I wouldn't worry about it. It's like food. The further away the expiry date is when you buy whatever it is, the more leeway there is past the expiry date ie it's an indication of how well the product "keeps". The instructions for Evorel patches say to store below 25 deg so depending where it's been stored over the hot days where we've had temps above 30 it might have deteriorated a little but it's not going to do you any harm and as it's 100 mcg and you are on 75s then if the cut down patches seem weaker just cut less off so that you are nearer 100...

I've got some out of date 50s in my drawer which I will be using if there is any delay in getting my 75s as I'm on the last box and they won't issue any more at a time

Hurdity x

I have been wondering this too. I have some Evorel Conti which expired in April 2019 which another member kindly sent me. I have been using them for the 3 day half of my week but wasn't sure.

Hi Katejo
Please could you let us know on here how it goes, I've got three months supply of evorel exp apr 19 so am interested.
After that I hope the shortage garbage will be over.

I haven't noticed any difference yet.

[Dandelion]

Hi I have some important info on expired patches. In an email to Dr Currie regarding HRT shortages, I asked about expired patches before I posted this thread and have had a reply today saying the expired patches may not be effective.
I thought I had better post this for information.

[bear]

Hi Dandelion,

Thank you. Has Dr. Currie told you anything regarding safety?

BeaR.

[Harmony]

I remember reading a while back that drug use by dates are conservative; it's in the drug companies interests to not give them a longer expiry date as that way they will sell more product.

[bear]

Hi Harmony,

I agree that expiry dates are conservative, but I think the reason is that pharma companies don't want to spend money testing them for more than 2-3 years.

BeaR.

[Rhiner]

Expiry dates on drugs will always be on the conservative side. However after a certain amount of time they will start to degrade, so there may not be 95 to 105% active (estradiol) ingredient any more, will start to fall and possibly degradation substances may form in small amounts.

They have obviously not got 3 years in spec stability data to support a 3 year shelf life, or it would be given 3 years (and its not usual to give say a 2,5 years shelf life, its usually per year once you have anything over a 2 year life). The shelf life also normally takes into account some excursions in temperature in case not stored all the time between 15 to 25 deg C.
All the stability data (including data up to 40 degC), will have been presented to the regulatory authorities when getting approvals, and 2 years will have been granted based on all this data when stored at 15 to 25.
Hope this helps a bit, I will try mine over the shelf life with the supply issues. If the oestrogen levels are too low Im sure you will feel it!
Rhiner X

[Taz2]

On the BMS site I think Evorel are reported as being expected back 'mid 2020' 

Taz x

[Hurdity]

Expiry dates on drugs will always be on the conservative side. However after a certain amount of time they will start to degrade, so there may not be 95 to 105% active (estradiol) ingredient any more, will start to fall and possibly degradation substances may form in small amounts.

They have obviously not got 3 years in spec stability data to support a 3 year shelf life, or it would be given 3 years (and its not usual to give say a 2,5 years shelf life, its usually per year once you have anything over a 2 year life). The shelf life also normally takes into account some excursions in temperature in case not stored all the time between 15 to 25 deg C.
All the stability data (including data up to 40 degC), will have been presented to the regulatory authorities when getting approvals, and 2 years will have been granted based on all this data when stored at 15 to 25.
Hope this helps a bit, I will try mine over the shelf life with the supply issues. If the oestrogen levels are too low Im sure you will feel it!
Rhiner X

Excellent and informative post Rhiner - you stated in an accurate and scientific way what I was trying to say from what seemed to be logical and taking into account the same arguments re food, dates and deterioration.

It would be different if it were an essential life-saving medication where precise dosage is crucial - in this case it would not be wise to use much past use-by date - but we would not be in this position with such products I don't think! Govt/Dept of Health would ensure this.

With HRT it is not a question of safety just efficacy.

Dandelion are you reassured? Dr Currie is not going to officially advise women to use out of date HRT but that's not to say it can't be used especially patches and if not far out of date relative to the life of the product. I will be using my out of date Estradot 50 when my 75s run out and if there is a gap between supply.

Hurdity x