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Author Topic: Returning symptoms  (Read 1996 times)

Mandee

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Returning symptoms
« on: February 25, 2019, 12:20:43 PM »

Hello all.
I am 54 years old and am currently on Evorel 100 patches, Utrogestan 200 for 12 days each month, Vagifem twice weekly and a fifth sachet Testogel a day.
I've been on this patch dose for 2 years now with good results but recently have been getting symptoms such as poor sleep, dry skin, no sex drive, dizzy spells, low mood etc. Basically the same ones I had originally before I started HRT. My bleed this month was much lighter than before with no cramps which I usually get.
My new doctor, as good as he is about my HRT usage, won't let me up the dose as he thinks it could cause problems with my womb as I get older but he's fine with me staying on it as long as I want.

I had an idea of a way to increase the dose but I don't know if it would work though. On patch change days I have just started to cut the old patch down to a quarter by carefully peeling it back, folding then cutting it thus leaving this bit on a whole week. I've been doing this now for 4 days.

I know they're supposed to be changed twice weekly but I'm sure there must be enough estrogen left to help somewhat. If not I'll leave a half on.
I did some intensive searching online and found an article which states that the absorption rate greatly declines in the twice weekly patches if left on for more than 3 or 4 days but I don't have any choice but to try this method.
I can't just add a quarter of a new patch as I would run out before my repeat prescription is due any they won't let me have them sooner.
I feel like I've reached a dead end with no other options to try. :-\

Thanks in advance.
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CLKD

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  • changes can be scary, even when we want them
Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #1 on: February 25, 2019, 01:53:34 PM »

It really is Trial and Error.  OK so you might have problems later on, so what.  How later on was the GP worried about?  It really does need some GPs to take the bull by the horns and allow ladies to take risks whilst charting what they do with their HRT in order to get relief from symptoms  ::) so that in future, the scares can be re-written!

Hopefully someone will be along with proper advice  ;)
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Hurdity

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #2 on: February 26, 2019, 04:56:59 PM »

Hi Mandee

You haven't said how far past menopause you are if at all? If you are still peri then hormones will continue to fluctuate so there are bound to be ups and downs.

However it would be surprising for your oestrogen to be low on that dose whether you are peri or post-menopausal, unless you really are not absorbing it well - and if your bleed is very light then maybe this is the case?  Also your testosterone dose seems high to me. I would go along to the dcotor and mention your ongoing symptoms which may be due to hormonal balance ( your T and SHBG levels should be tested regularly anyway) or possibly other reasons - dietary? Vitamin deficiencies (or rather sub-optimal)? Iron, thryoid issues? Also do you take anti-depressants or other meds - some of which also depress libido?

Re the patch - and how often to change - the paper I read said that all patches were designed to last a week with a gradual decline in delivery but most of them are changed twice weekly for optimal dose. However another paper showed a graph as you found - a big drop off after the 3rd/4th day. I think also the issue is one of sticking - I find my Estradot patches are ready to come off after the allotted 3.5 days - so even though there may be plenty of oestrogen left on them - they tend to be coming unstuck after lots of showering and dressing/undressing! Sounds like a good idea for attempting to increase dose - what you are doing - but still go along to doc - and let us know!

Hurdity x
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Mandee

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #3 on: February 26, 2019, 08:54:49 PM »

Thanks for your replies.

Birdy,
I have thought about trying oestrogel but I'd still have the same problem with running out before the repeat is due as I'd be using more than I'm supposed to unless docs don't take much notice of how many pumps are used or precisely how long the pump should last.
My doc would probably let me try the gel if I told him I could be having absorption problems.

Hurdity,
I have no idea how far past menopause I am, how could I find out? It was only this month that my bleed was so light.
I have always been on a fifth sachet of testogel, the dose my previous gynaecologist (now retired) put me on 6 years ago which she said is the usual dose for women on HRT.

I have never had my hormone levels checked as both she and my gp said the tests are unreliable and only pick up the hormones the body makes, not the ones coming from HRT and that testosterone tests are designed for men therefore can't give accurate results for women. The only test I had was at the very beginning in 2012, a blood test which showed my hormone levels were changing towards menopause. I have had other blood tests since which showed thyroid as normal.

I take multivitamins daily and am not on any medications. My libido was fine up until recently and has always come back in the past when the patch was increased.

I'm probably still peri as the bleeds vary in amount and don't start on the same day each month. Since I've been on the utrogestan they start anywhere between the 17th and the 22nd of the month, this month it was the 23rd and the latest ever. I thought that HRT would make them start on exactly the same day each month. Most women start bleeding a few days after the progesterone course ends.

I have read about some women needing higher patch doses than 100, some are on 200. If I wasn't absorbing the patch dose very well, surely they would never have worked properly right from the start. I was originally on evorel sequi 50 then went up to 75 and started on the 100 2 years ago which have been fine up until now.

Since I started this post I found more info on the patches, seems I was reading about reservoir type patches which drop off suddenly, not the matrix type ones I use. This was a big relief to read as it should work OK hopefully.

Regarding the sticking, I've never had a problem with this apart from when I've cut patches into smaller bits then they do come off.
I have just ordered some sticky film called Tegaderm which is used for covering tattoos and bandages etc to keep them waterproof. Lots of women use it over their HRT patches and find it works really well. It comes on a roll and as individual patches similar to ordinary plasters. It should work well for women using those crappy Femseven patches I was put on some years ago which came off after one day!

I'm reluctant to go back to the gp as it took a while to find a good one at this new practice after I moved here just over a year ago. Two of the others stopped my testogel and Vagifem without even speaking to me first. He was recommended to me by a lady at the chemist and seems to be the only doctor here who is HRT friendly. I posted on here about 6 months ago regarding the Vagifem issue, he sorted it out for me and has given me longer repeat prescriptions to stop the other docs from interfering again.
Unlike the previous area I lived in, the meno clinic at the hospital here doesn't do regular check ups every 6 months. I only had to go once to get my testogel reapproved and was told I won't be seen again and was referred back to my gp, so I don't see a gynaecologist at all.

I'll keep up what I'm doing with the patches and let you know if it helps and thanks again. :)

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Mandee

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #4 on: March 20, 2019, 09:02:37 AM »

Hi all,
Just an update on my patch experiment leaving a quarter of the old patch on to increase the dose.
It's been 4 weeks since I started this and there was an improvement in my sleep a week later for a few days but that went off again so I'm going to up it to half a patch on friday when I put a new one on.

I have read on here that sticking them on the bum gives a higher absoorption rate. I have always put them on the top front or sides of my thighs but there's no fat there.
Have any of you moved them from thighs to bum and found an improvement?
I did put them on belly in the very beginning but they were too painful to remove so I moved to thighs from then on.

Knowing my luck I'm one of those poor absorbers as Hurdity mentioned hence having to use the biggest patch size. My previous gynaecologist did say that some women are on double that dose though!

Is there anyone else on here using a higher dose than average?
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Hurdity

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #5 on: March 20, 2019, 05:50:06 PM »

Re placement of patch - it's only ever been butt cheeks for me - seems to work fine and well hidden, but others prefer front abdomen (too much loose baby skin) or top of thigh (visible in summer when wearing short shorts or swimwear!).

Hurdity x
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Mandee

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #6 on: March 21, 2019, 09:51:36 AM »

Thanks for your replies.

Birdy When I moved here about a year and a half ago the first gp I saw refused to prescribe my testogel which I had been on for 5 years under a previous gynaecologist. This idiot made me see a new NHS gynae at the hospital here to OK the testogel before she'd agree to prescribe it. Luckily the gynae was fine with it but when I asked her if I'll needed to see her every 6 months like I did with my previous one, I was simply told “We don't do that here.” She wasn't very friendly and knowledgeable anyway.

I believe exactly the same as you that my levels have dropped. It's happened before as I've had to go up through all the patch sizes over the years. I'm 54 and now worried that the levels will drop even more so the patch won't work at all even if I leave the full old one on alongside a new one.

Hurdity which part of butt cheek do you put your patch on? I thought of trying this a while ago but thought it would come off due to the skin creasing when sitting and rubbing against clothes etc.
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Anjia

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #7 on: March 21, 2019, 04:21:54 PM »

I use a 50mcg patch twice a week but it's not enough so the past few weeks I've been adding a small blob of osteogel every other day it works for me   I will prob find my gp has somthing to say about it though next week when I see her.
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Mandee

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Re: Returning symptoms
« Reply #8 on: March 23, 2019, 10:14:11 AM »

Anjia,
How do you get the estrogel prescribed as well as the patches? I thought doctors only prescribed one type of HRT At a time.
This would be a good thing for me to try as it would be easy to add little bits until I found the right dose that works but my doc wouldn't allow it.
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