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[CLKD]

Nowt in red on here 

Stop worrying, get on with Life.  The bomb might go off tomorrow  ......... I've never even considered that the product will reach my womb anyway ......... it supposedly absorbed into the vaginal walls any residue drains out.  Well it does in mine ..........

[Katejo]

Worried and confused. Using ovestin every night for VA for a few weeks. Still getting frequent weeing and fed up.  Don't want to use any other hrt as had bleeding on tiboline. I'm permanently worried these days.

Some women do find that the night they use vaginal oestrogen (eg when used twice a week) paradoxically they get bladder irritation even though overall it has a beneficial effect on vaginal and bladder tissues. This always happens to me with Vagifem. Maybe cut down to using it say 3 x per week and see how you feel?

If you find this is not controlling your VA then maybe time to rethink systemic HRT which many of us need as well as local oestrogen.

Hurdity x

  I have been using Vagifem for just over 4 months, mostly daily. In the earlier weeks it started to relieve the bladder irritation and also the feeling of knicker elastic chafing me on the left (as someone else on FB expressed it) and a dull ache in my hip, also on the left. After about 2-3 months, I found that I wasn't getting up to go to the loo in the night as much. However if I reduced it to only twice a week, the symptoms crept back quickly.

Then, this week, I have found that the symptoms above have crept back even though I am using Vagifem daily. Perhaps there is some degree of irritation from it. I am wondering whether to try using 2 together but just twice a week. I did once try using 2 together as a test to see if I had an adverse reaction but I didn't.

Those of you who have already used it for over a year: Did you find fluctuations in its effectiveness to start with?

[CLKD]

Many find that this particular VA treatment does cause fluctuations as it may not be enough active ingredient.  I would try 3 nights of double dose.

[suzysunday]

I think I might have experienced this with ovestin, which I am using nightly. Trouble is, I feel so anxious since recent health scare that I don't know if I am weeing a lot from anxiety, or I am so over conscious about my vagina and weeing that I don't know what's normal any more. That probably sounds a bit daft, but I just can't settle with my body any more.

[CLKD]

It doesn't sound daft at all.  When I start to come down from a high anxiety hit I wee: every 10 mins. copious amounts.  For about 2 hours.

Are you drinking enough SS because the kidneys will work harder if the body is dehydrated.  Also, maybe take a pain relief, it eases that bladder niggle for me: 1 capsule of Nurofen

[suzysunday]

Not sure what SS is, but yes I make sure I am hydrated with water. Last Sunday night I had a wee every 10 minutes like you, all night . I was exhausted. But then I think some of it is the VA.   I just feel like crying today I am so fed up of feeling crap and thinking how my bits feel all the time.

[CLKD]

Sorry I was being lazy - i.e. SS = suzysunday  but now I read it back 

Up your fluid intake in the afternoon.  Take a pain relief tablet 30 mins. B4 bed as well as the treatment.  ....... and breath. 

[suzysunday]

Thanks. I know my breathing is very shallow most of the time.

[suzysunday]

Also brain fog on my part about SS.  I thought it was something I should be drinking!

[CLKD]

Soft Stuff?  sorry I was being lazy.

Have you tried proper breathing exercises or singing which means we HAVE to breath correctly.

[suzysunday]

No I haven't. I will look into it. I do a lot of walking and exercise at home.  Walking always helps.

[Katejo]

No I haven't. I will look into it. I do a lot of walking and exercise at home.  Walking always helps.

Helps  me too. I have done over 260 000 steps this month(part of a local challenge).

[Hurdity]

Haha, next time I'll choose blue, sometimes this subject gives me the blues, so quite appropriate. I thought red was ok to highlight a potential danger, but I agree that it doesn't suit presbyopia 


Thank you for the explanation, the math is quite simplistic and doesn't mean anything in terms of how much is being absorbed by local cells. The statement is misleading, it reassures women that topical is safer than oral but doesn't address the issue in question which is: is topical oestrogen safe in the long term? It's also disconcerting that oral estrogen is used as  comparison when oral tablets are still being prescribed and sold in large amounts.


Conolly X

Haha that's why I use green - as it is calming! (CLKD go to the first page and you'll see the red unless you are colour blind?)!

Yes it is totally simplistic! I assume it was a simplistic way of getting the message across that the amount in Vagifem is tiny compared to systemic HRT - because people understand it - it's a ballpark thing rather than precise measurement!

I'm not quite sure what you are worried about? As has been said earlier in this thread - long term effects of vaginal oestrogen have not been measured and this is recognised in the HRT guidance from BMS - I'm sure I have referred to it down thread? However the stimulating effect of oestrogen on the endometrium is dose dependent and this is well documented therefore the minimal risk is by extrapolation in the absence of hard data and long term trials. As with all treatments it is a question of risk (of endometrial cancer) - which is estimated to be extremely low - even if theoretically possible.

I'm also not sure why you are disconcerted re the oral oestrogen? Provided any oestrogen is combined with the appropriate dose of progestogen for women who still have a uterus - then the risk of endometrial cancer is minimised.

There is no need for women to be alarmed at all - we have recommendations drawn up by the experts in the filed who have examined the evidence and drawn their conclusions  - but as always with any hormonal treatment - be sensible and vigilant, and only deviate from the licensed regime in consultation with your medical professional.

Btw Conolly are you American/living in US?

Hurdity x

[Conolly]

Hello again,

Are you saying that the BMS 2016 'guidelines' (I don't know what is the right term) contradict NICE guidelines? https://bnf.nice.org.uk/treatment-summary/vaginal-and-vulval-conditions.html

I'm worried about the confusing information regarding leaflets, NICE guidelines, surgeries and now BMS 'guidance'. Shouldn't they all speak the same language? Are BMS and NICE independent from each other? I understand that the so called Menopause Societies (BMS and NAMS in the US) have many menopause 'experts' but I don't know exactly what is their 'official' role.

I might need vaginal atrophy treatment in the near future, so I'm trying to learn as much as I can.

I'm not from the US, but I go there often.

Conolly X

[CLKD]

Crikey that's days away  in fact, I see it as orange 

Trust me: I could not have lived with the razor blades up there regardless of any risks ....... I would have been off a cliff.