Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Mustard1]

https://www.bbc.co.uk/sounds/play/m0000yjx   Go to 14 minutes and 30 seconds into this Radio 4 programme.  It is an american oncologist talking about HRT and breast cancer.  He is the author of Oestrogen Matters.  It is an informative report that lasts around 15 mins.

[SueLW]

Well Jennie Murray couldn't have been more hostile unless she came out and screamed at him.  She was so negative.  Just because she took HRT for over a decade and got cancer doesn't mean the cancer was caused by the HRT.  Now she's like the HRT police. 

[Shadyglade]

I don't much like Jenny Murray or Women's Hour anymore.  Not much on there relates to me.  It's all 'Me Too' and transgender topics.  Also very preachy.

[Charys]

Well, this is very topical for me, as I've had bc, been told I can't have HRT, need HRT desperately but am scared to ask for any due to what my oncologist told me. I am aware of the change in outlook on HRT by many enlightened medical professionals, but still have been told 'not for you dear'. I listened to all of it, however, I put off listening until today as I'm torn in various directions on it and find it impossible to think about with so much conflicting advice.

The guy came across extremely well and I thought that his answers were really good 'I make judgements based on up to date and accurate information'. I actually didn't find the intervewing hostile, I found it had a sense of gravity - its a serious issue, a very important one and has potentially vast implications. I think there is a problem here for women of this era, we are in a period of scientific flux on this matter. The issue of HRT has had false starts, spanners in the work, polemic advice on taking it and everyone, even medical professionals are confused and don't know what advice to give. There are studies here there and everywhere, and each seems to have a bias or an outcome that contradicts the other. It almost needs someone high up, in govt, the find a task force to take control of it, read and study all relevant and accurate literature, and send standard advice via NICE to the NHS. Without that type of intervention everyone (in the medical profession) can form their own opinion on what the right thing is based on studies they've read/their . We all know that any major changes in policy on medical matters takes years to filter down....and I don't think until there is consensus on this matter the medics will react accordingly to change their prescribing.

How do I feel after having listened to it? Even more confused and upset than before. I didn't take tamoxifen for more than a few weeks, I know my oestrogen is reducing in late peri (I was hormone responsive), I'm terrified of a recurrence and also terrified of how I feel in peri and terrified of the future without hrt. The devil and the deep blue sea. I am told to trust my doctors, but I also like to know recent research and the outcomes. ? I am none the wiser, and even if I personally felt wiser lol I can't make choices against the wishes of my doctors.

[Shadyglade]

Don't be afraid of peri Charys. It can be very tough but more women get through it with out HRT, than with it. Look for alternatives that may suit you and try not to stress (not easy I know), as that can make peri seem worse and visa versa.

I an sure I have seen websites for women in your situation.  Do a search or ask your doctor. 

[Katejo]

Well Jennie Murray couldn't have been more hostile unless she came out and screamed at him.  She was so negative.  Just because she took HRT for over a decade and got cancer doesn't mean the cancer was caused by the HRT.  Now she's like the HRT police.

Yes I thought she was hostile too. I didn't know that she had had cancer. I tried to tell a colleague about the book and suggest that it would be worth looking at it. She dismissed it completely because an older family member had had breast cancer after taking HRT.

[Katejo]

Well, this is very topical for me, as I've had bc, been told I can't have HRT, need HRT desperately but am scared to ask for any due to what my oncologist told me. I am aware of the change in outlook on HRT by many enlightened medical professionals, but still have been told 'not for you dear'. I listened to all of it, however, I put off listening until today as I'm torn in various directions on it and find it impossible to think about with so much conflicting advice.

The guy came across extremely well and I thought that his answers were really good 'I make judgements based on up to date and accurate information'. I actually didn't find the intervewing hostile, I found it had a sense of gravity - its a serious issue, a very important one and has potentially vast implications. I think there is a problem here for women of this era, we are in a period of scientific flux on this matter. The issue of HRT has had false starts, spanners in the work, polemic advice on taking it and everyone, even medical professionals are confused and don't know what advice to give. There are studies here there and everywhere, and each seems to have a bias or an outcome that contradicts the other. It almost needs someone high up, in govt, the find a task force to take control of it, read and study all relevant and accurate literature, and send standard advice via NICE to the NHS. Without that type of intervention everyone (in the medical profession) can form their own opinion on what the right thing is based on studies they've read/their . We all know that any major changes in policy on medical matters takes years to filter down....and I don't think until there is consensus on this matter the medics will react accordingly to change their prescribing.

How do I feel after having listened to it? Even more confused and upset than before. I didn't take tamoxifen for more than a few weeks, I know my oestrogen is reducing in late peri (I was hormone responsive), I'm terrified of a recurrence and also terrified of how I feel in peri and terrified of the future without hrt. The devil and the deep blue sea. I am told to trust my doctors, but I also like to know recent research and the outcomes. ? I am none the wiser, and even if I personally felt wiser lol I can't make choices against the wishes of my doctors.

Send me a private email and I will scan you the chapter on breast cancer patients taking HRT. It goes into a lot more detail than his talk. I haven't had BC but, if I had, I  would probably be willing to try HRT after reading this. He argues that taking HRT is likely to be more beneficial than taking Tamoxifen.

[Charys]

You know, I don't think really matter how much research you do (well some basic knowledge is good of course), or how many you talk to - everyone has a different perspective and opinion. I went through this when I had some choices during bc treatment, you can research till you are blue in the face and still it won't make things clearer in your own mind, as huge amounts of confusion can be introduced when there are so many conflicting stats and you are weighing up risks that are unknown quantities.

Ultimately, I came down to one fact, you just have to go with a psychological, rather than a physical choice. By that I mean, the choice that you are committed to and makes you feel the most settled and happy. It was my bc nurse who advised me to go this way when I had a chemo choice. So, yes, I am struggling hugely....I have had very severe reactions to sudden hormone changes in my life (post-natal psychosis and the same happened on tamoxifen) and I'm mentally not coping well with this late peri stuff. However, its all about weighing up risks and choosing by your 'gut' - and I think a cancer reccurence would be worse. What a flippin choice!

By the way, it has been mentioned before on here, and I see posters above have also talked about 'alternative' health treatments - are there any threads on here devoted to those?

[Charys]

Thanks katejo, will pm you now. There is something that I've never understood, that I think about now and again, it struck me when hearing the excerpt also. Its an inconsistency that I don't understand, but this guy mentally 'filled the gap'. To explain, if bc is most commonly diagnosed in peri meno and post meno women (which it is), those who are lowest in oestrogen, then how is stopping oestogen further with oestrogen blocking therapies working? I'm sure the medics would have an answer to this, and stats probably bear it out, but I don't get it.

Shadyglade, thanks for your kind words. I need to remember this fact, that on here is a self-selecting group and most people are getting by ok without hrt assistance.

[Charys]

Oh yes, thanks, derrrrrr......I really should have/seen found that.

Honestly......

Ta everso

[Joaniepat]

By the way, it has been mentioned before on here, and I see posters above have also talked about 'alternative' health treatments - are there any threads on here devoted to those?

On the main menu under Menopause Discussion, there is a section called Alternative Therapies.

JP x

[CLKD]

Charys - I don't think that 'they 'look at any variations at all.  One has had breast cancer which may have been oestrogen led so you won't
be getting HRT - end of.  As I left my last Oncology Appt. in 1996 he muttered "No HRT for you Dear Lady" and I thought: time will tell.

'They' simply won't prescribe it.  But my argument always is that the bus might be along tomorrow or the Bomb Might Go Off, long B4 breast cells regrow.  If we have less oestrogen as we age then there is surely, less chance of recurrence anyway?

Tamoxifen made me really ill  [as stated here several times].  My friend had womb cancer, due to taking it for 5 years, then a break of 3 then breast disease re-occured; so back to Tamoxifen then womb cancer  .  Risk if there is, risk if we don't be pre-active.

What medics don't seem to get is how suicidal some ladies become due to menopause symptoms  . Quality of Life should be considered!  Haven't listened to the Link [yet] as I don't like her on Womens' Hour :-(

[Katejo]

Thanks katejo, will pm you now. There is something that I've never understood, that I think about now and again, it struck me when hearing the excerpt also. Its an inconsistency that I don't understand, but this guy mentally 'filled the gap'. To explain, if bc is most commonly diagnosed in peri meno and post meno women (which it is), those who are lowest in oestrogen, then how is stopping oestogen further with oestrogen blocking therapies working? I'm sure the medics would have an answer to this, and stats probably bear it out, but I don't get it.

Shadyglade, thanks for your kind words. I need to remember this fact, that on here is a self-selecting group and most people are getting by ok without hrt assistance.

Charys  I have seen your PM but also need your email address included to send to.

[wombat62]

I haven't had chance to listen to it but really it all needs so much more research, as my doc says everything is a statistic - because xxxx got bc because of HRT then you are similar and therefore at risk. Heck, we're all at risk of everything these days, from what I've read being overweight (like Jennie Murray was), drinking alcohol and having dense tissue are all risk factors maybe even outweighing taking hrt for some people.

I know 3 people get out of the blue unusual cancers this year, nothing caused by lifestyle just extreme bad luck so sometimes you just have to live in the here and now and if hrt helps you live a more comfortable life today then why worry about getting x or x when something else could come along totally unrelated.

Charys, hope you can get some help soon.

[AgathaC]

This is not a comment or a passing of judgement but Jenni Murray is 68 and has smoked 20 cigarettes a day for 52 years since she was 16. She smoked even through her breast cancer treatment. She gave up this summer due to expensive dental implants. Yes she may be overweight and yes she may have taken HRT but surely the smoking might be a contributory factor x