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[SueLW]

Hello Ladies

I see a private HRT doctor.  I have done for over 3 years.  Recently I managed to get in with Louise Newson's new clinic in Stratford which is much closer to home.  By the time I saw Louise I had made up my mind to try Estrogel and Utrogestan anyway.  So that's what I am on.  Despite what Hurdity has found out and all the discussion we've had here, Louise says that Oestrodose is weaker than Estrogel in practice and told me only to use Estrogel.  I am to use an online pharmacy for it because they guarantee to only prescribe it to her patients, but to get the prescriptions from my GP.  The pharmacy need the script to say Estrogel.  I just can't get the GP to do it.  She seems worried by the computer system they all use and declared today (after 2 other failed prescriptions over the past 2 weeks) that she can't type the product name into the system therefore she can't prescribe it.  All she can do is prescribe Estradiol gel.  If I send that to the local pharmacy or the online pharmacy I will get Oestrodose back.  This has been confirmed by both outlets.  The online pharmacy said that Estrogel is more expensive, so they have to prescribe the cheaper Oestrodose if it's not specified on the script because the NHS won't reimburse them for the expensive product otherwise.  So I'm stuck.

She is also obsessing about my blood pressure.  I used to have good blood pressure before I got fat and unfit and middle-aged, but it has risen now.  However I know that it changes a lot during the day.  She gets very much higher readings on her surgery monitor than I get on mine at home, however we have calibrated them together and they are quite close.  So I have some white coat syndrome going on it would seem.  She just looks blank when I try to explain this.  She has had me back and forth to retest it.  Each time she says it's high and looks worried.  Today I took 3 days of my home readings in which are less high, but she still thinks I will need medication or I risk a stroke.  Then she said she doesn't think I should be on oestrogen because she thinks it's the oestrogen that has pushed my BP up.

I tried to explain that without the oestrogen I feel suicidal but she just said I needed an antidepressant with anti anxiety properties.  She refuses to acknowledge that hypothyroidism is a cause of rising BP and despite a year and a half treatment for that, my thyroid levels are still worse now than they were before I started thyroid meds.  Once I began those my levels deteriorated fast! 

I don't want to come off HRT.  I don't want BP medication.  I don't want antidepressants. 
I do want better thyroid treatment to give me some energy and hope back. 
I don't think the GP knows what she's doing.

I see my first endocrinologist a week on Friday.  I am praying I get a decent one who will help me improve my thyroid treatment. I don't know what to do about my very variable BP.  Being threatened with a stroke is not helping the white coat syndrome.  My previous HRT doctor took to threatening me with diabetes if I didn't loose weight fast, that made me get very stressed with her too.  Thyroid could be the route cause of all these issues and yet it's brushed under the carpet.

[Snoooze]

I can't advise on HRT but when my mother in law was diagnosed with Thyroid in her early 60's her blood pressure was sky high and her GP told her it was caused by the thyroid. She is in her 70's now and does take blood pressure tablets as they couldn't get it down but even on the blood pressure tablets and thyroid meds only last year, it went very  high again and they had her in everyday testing it. She does have a good diet and she walks everywhere and gets a lot of exercise but she does like to drink, so don't know whether that sent it high?!

I can understand your white coat syndrome as I suffer with anxiety and if they say it's high to me on first reading then I panic and so it doesn't come down again but also, if they told me I was at risk of stroke that would have me panicking as well.

I think you just have to decide what's best for you but I'm the sort that does what the Dr tells me so if they told me I had to come off the HRT because of my high blood pressure putting me at risk of a stroke then I would agree but as you say, you think they are wrong so fight your corner. Good luck.

[SueLW]

High blood pressure and rising cholesterol were symptoms GP's used to use to diagnose hypothyroidism.  She's not connecting the dots.

I'm feeling seriously stressed now.  Probably because I feel trapped.  If I could exercise I would perhaps be able to reduce my BP a bit, but I am so exhausted physically most of the time that I can't.  I think that is the thyroid issue.  I am going to an open day at the new Stratford clinic that Dr Louise has just opened.  I'm going to see if I can have a word with her or one of the other HRT doctors who work there.  Life is hard enough, we don't need to fight our GP's for help. 

[Nellie Noo]

Poor you !! So so frustrating and worrying ! Im not qualified to comment on your post except to say that i ‘ve also been given oestrodose as opposed to oestrogel and i know there is a difference ! I can feel it. Its not only a thinner gel but i just felt better on the oestrogel !

[dangermouse]

I think if you get a private prescription conversion by the NHS, then you have to accept the cheaper products because of the budget problems.

I would ask your private doctor for the private prescription and use this with the online pharmacy if you can afford the higher price. I suspect they were trying to save you money but didn’t realise that this product has been removed from the NHS prescribing system.

[Tinkerbell]

I certainly feel there is a difference between Oestrodose and Estrogel, I haven't had any blips since using Estrogel since January.
My prescription says Estradiol, I now pick prescription up rather than it going electronically to Chemist and then take it to wherever I can find estrogel in stock.

[CLKD]

Have you spoken to Louise or her Secretary?  That would be my first call suggesting that she speaks to my GP to explain the ins and outs.

Every day is a learning curve and GPs have a LOT to learn about menopause ;-). Otherwise, if Louise really believes that this is the correct course of treatment, she should prescribe it.  Also, GPs don't have to prescribe something on the NHS that has been suggested via a Private Appt..

[Poppi]

SueLW, I'm sorry this dr is unsympathetic and I can't offer any help about the HRT prescription problem but this time last year I had sky high BP, anxiety through the roof, was overweight and menopause problems I couldn't deal with at al. Gradually it got sorted but it was a tough ride. I'll not go back over the day to day details but my anxiety is semi-cured by beta blockers (no extra weight gain!) BP has come way down to nearly perfect, a new lady dr (a young one and I groaned when I first met her!) But she recommended MM as being an excellent place for 1st class advice 😇 ! Now I'm settled on HRT which agrees with me so I'm like a different person. A statin has eased my worries about heart trouble, maybe not doing much but helps my anxiety.
Sorry if my experience doesn't really help but I'm saying perseverance maybe a help?
Hugs and understanding flying your way Sue 
      Poppi. x

[CLKD]

Or ask a Pharmacist to investigate?

[Ladybt28]

GP's are a pain huh!  To be honest, thyroid issues are connected to blood pressure issues and hormone issues can affect them both so if the balance is "up the left" somewhere across these conditions then you are going to get some odd readings when tested for any of them.

You are going to see an endocrinologist on Friday about the thyroid and I would tell them about the problems you are having with blood pressure and hormone treatment.  They will be able to comment on all 3.  Tell them that you don't want AD's and you do want to control your blood pressure and you don't want off of your HRT!  There is absolutely no reason why you should have to consider that at all.  The endocrinologist and Louise Newson trump your GP hands down in knowledge and between the two of them they should be able to stabilise what is happening - the GP just has to follow their instructions!  (sorry if I sound a bit bolshy but GP's really get my goat! - they should know more bearing in mind how many menopausal women must sit in front of them!  ).

You have made it clear when you wrote in your first post in the 4th paragraph what you want to happen and what you think the problem is.  This is not unrealistic in any way.  Tell this to endocrinologist and ask if he can liaise with Louise Newson as well because the two things are connected. Each dr only seems to stick to their own field I have found but that is pretty stupid seeing as one thing can contribute to another they are never in isolation.  My mother-in-law had complex problems and all 3 of her consultants regularly had to talk to one another to get her sorted (it was a battle but I just told them they had to otherwise nothing would work!) Just for info -I take blood pressure medication with my HRT and I have been on blood pressure meds for longer than I have been on HRT.  There is no real problem having the two together unless there is a history of stroke or some other underlying condition in the family. I have had hormonal depression all my life since a teenager - so that suicidal feeling I know very well and no one should be put in a position of feeling that way.

The consultants are there to help you - not to have you to bow to their every word because they behave like they know everything!  You know your own body and your own mind - tell them what you know and tell them they need to help you!  Unfortunately in my life I have had to deal with many a dr and consultant for some very serious genetic problems in our family and too often I have found the patient and family gets given the run around.  Its just not on - it' not their life they are messing with its' yours and they are the ones who have the responsibility to get it right! (oops sorry here I go again 

[Annie0710]

My old gp and pharmacy worked together to only get me Oestrogel after a few times being given oestrodose.  This new surgery so far have always prescribed oestrogel x

[Kathleen]

Hello ladies.

I use the gel and  my routine is to take the prescription into my surgery and then collect the medication from the pharmacy about 5 days later. On one occasion I was given Oestrdose so I started writing  on the 'script that I required Oestrogel by Besins.  When I do this I always get the correct gel so that may be something other ladies could consider.

Wishing everyone well.

K.

[Ladybt28]

There is a thread on here by Hurdity about Besins and the difference between the two which is supposed to be none.  I am looking at my bottle now and it says oestrodose on the box but the pump has a label on the back saying Ostrogel (with the trademark symbol R next to it) (estradiol) at the top.  At the bottom of the label it says "procured from the EU and packaged by Doncaster Pharmaceuticals Group Ltd - Product Licence holder BR Lewis Pharmaceuticals Ltd.

The front label is in French and says at the bottom: Laboratoires Besins-International

I believe it is made by Besins shipped from the EU and re-packaged by a UK company - I have no idea why or why it might be cheaper for the NHS to do it that way - maybe it has to do with import licences?