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[Hurdity]

Hi Optimist - just to say the Utrogestan (for use as part of HRT) is exactly the same (now only available as 100 mg capsules) whether taken orally or vaginally (the latter off licence). The vaginal capsules are available for fertility purposes and come as 200 mg - but are exactly the same! Many women just opt to use them vaginally and sometimes without telling their doc! There is no danger in this because more progesterone gets to your uterus than taken orally so not putting the endometrium at risk, unlike deciding on a shorter course of prog which would need checking.

Hope you feel better soon

Hurdity x

[Optimist]

Hi all, hope you are looking forward to Christmas.
Just an update and advice please if possible...on 4th week of patches (still using the Femseven) on oestrogen after the progesterone phase and felt so much more lively after stopping the progesterone one. No tears, but...haven't had a period. On day 5 oestrogen and on the tablets bled at the end of progesterone. I also have really bad back pain again and the knuckles on my right hand painful again.(this disappeared completely on the tablets).  Have been sleeping well but tired a lot. Can only think that as I started on week 2 of oestrogen phase (having swapped from tablets) that maybe the patches will take longer to completely get into my system? Not sure how they work really.
I have another week on the oestrogen patch before swapping to prog again. The GP switched my patches to Everol sequi due to my meltdown on the levonorgestrel progesterone in Femseven but I've not started them yet. Was going to switch on Friday when due a change of patch, these are also twice weekly so may stick better.
TBH she said if these don't work to come off hrt altogether for a while and a menopause clinic referral will be done. I'm really going to try give these the full 3 months as I realise I've not been giving any one type a proper go but I just react so badly to the progesterone that my mind does t feel like it belongs to me.
Sorry long post...hope others are getting on well with whatever they're trialling 😊Xx

[Hurdity]

Yes do give them the full 3 months before deciding! However if these don't work it may be that the combo type of patches do not suit you. Many of us on here have separate oestrogen patches (or gel) and progesterone - either Utrogestan or Provera - which means you take the progestogen for slightly fewer days and can also increase the oestrogen a little more if necessary without having to increase the protgestogen - as long as it is taken for the correct number of days.

Hurdity x

[Optimist]

Hi there, nearly Christmas!! 
Just an update really...still not feeling great. On 2nd week of oestrogen (everol sequi patch since Friday), will be starting the progesterone patch this Friday and have to say dreading it! Hope I don't feel like a zombie again, even thinking I will put up with the irrational mood swings if I just feel like I've got a bit of life. Have had a headache everyday for the last 10 days so thinking it's my body getting used to the slight increase of oestrogen?
I am going to try my best to persevere the whole 3 months on patches but would really like to see some changes if I'm to stay on it...sure I read that the correct hrt is supposed to make you feel better not worse...??
Have a good week all...have recommended my mate and my sister to this brilliant forum xx

[Optimist]

Would anyone know why I'm getting back, neck and right hand knuckle pain again on the patches (was Femseven sequi now everol sequi same on both)? The patches dose of oestrogen is slightly higher than the tablets I was on (elleste duet 1mg) but I had no joint pain whatsoever which was part of the reason I've persevered with the hrt. Would anyone have any answers I'm losing the will to carry on with hrt especially as nearly back onto the progesterone patches which bring really bad pms side effects. Thank you in anticipation ☺️

[Hurdity]

Sorry to hear you are still not feeling so good. I can't explain why you are getting joint pains - HRT usually helps with this as low oestrogen is one of the causes. However underactive thryoid I understand is also a cause and also various vitamin deficiencies. It could just be a coincidence and not at all due to the HRT.  Try to be as positive as you can about HRT and concentrate on the fact that it will eventually make you feel much better - and think about enjoying your Christmas preparations and the festive season to come, if you can .

Hurdity x

[Optimist]

Thanks Hurdity. I know I need to be more positive and I shall certainly try. Last day at work tomorrow until 3rd Jan so feeling a bit more "optimistic". Think maybe I've been expecting too much too soon. My bloods have always been okay as far as I'm aware and take lots of vitamins too. Think maybe I'm entering into pms zone early as I've missed a period so hopefully will feel bit better soon...
I'm going to shut up now as feel I'm constantly moaning but thank you for listening and helping me out with your advice. Have a fantastic Christmas 🎅🏼🎄🎁 x

[Hurdity]

Yes you have a good Christmas too - and don't ever worry about moaning - that's what this forum is for - so we can offload to other like-minded and sympathetic women without bending the ears of our nearest and dearest. After all we can turn each other off with a click and we're logged out if we've had enough - which you can't do with friends and family 

Hurdity x

[dahliagirl]

Do you know your vit D status?

I have terrible pain in my neck and shoulders, hands and feet and hips too when mine goes low - in fact if I do not take the tablets for a couple of weeks.  At one point, I was going to bed early because it hurt to hold my head up.  It might be worth getting a pack of 25 microgram/1000 IU  D3 ones to see if helps (usually about 1month - 6 weeks).  My friend has been taking some liquid capsules and found them more helpful than the tablets.

I found the pain got worse with my first hrt (elleste) and I changed.  But with hindsight, I do wonder if the hormones are making some of the cells in your body work again and you are using up the free vitD that is available in the blood.  Anyway, it is worth a punt as you usually need more than you think and this is the time of the year for low vit D levels.

[Salad]

Hi Optimist 
One of my low oestrogen symptoms was diagnosed as 'menopausal arthritis' - pain in my thumbs/index fingers, wrist, elbow, hips, knee and big toes relieved by HRT. However, one of the signs that my HRT dose is too high is lower back pain 
It seems like a constant juggling act to get the dose right but keep at it and you'll get there. X
 

[Optimist]

Thanks Dahliagirl and salad...love the names😊 Really interesting re the vit D and the higher oestrogen as the elleste I was on was 1mg but the Everol Sequi are 1.25mg I believe, so higher and since I've been on the patches that's when my aches and pains have returned.
I'll get some vit d gel capsules to try as I'm a firm believer in herbal supplements and vitamins. Have woken at 4am...wide awake! Switching to the progesterone patch today and feeling a little apprehensive but got lots to look forward to as family coming up today for Christmas.
Started running again yesterday also as not done any exercise for few weeks due to back pain again but trying to overcome that and as for poor fella...I appear to have gone right off him again but hoping that's the hormonal changes as I go through this emotional roller coaster.
Have a good Christmas 🎄 and thanks for helping out with your advice xx

[Optimist]

Update and really hope I'm not jinxing myself here but.......day 7 of progesterone/oestrogen patch and feel marvellous!

After switching from femseven sequi (wouldn't stick, horrible depression/no libido) changed to everol sequi patches (they stick really well) now just coming up to 2nd week of norethisterone progesterone patch and libido back, no low mood, no erratic moods so far (horrendous on tablet form of same progesterone). Had some cramping yesterday as missed a period on femseven sequi so hoping ?! I'll get a bleed at end of next week but certainly won't be upset if I don't!

Not so positive... really dry skin since switching to patches even though slightly higher dose of oestrogen, bad on hands, hair really dry also and getting knuckle/joint pain again but back ache seems to have cleared! On the tablets my skin/hair felt lovely, can anyone suggest anything for that? Do I need higher oestrogen?

Also getting quite vivid dreams and waking bit more on progesterone but hoping this will settle? Will just say I'm off work for the holidays so much more relaxed maybe this is helping with the side effects of the progesterone.

Also just bought some vit D3 as suggested so starting to take that to see if helps 

Hope you all had a lovely Christmas xx

[Dancinggirl]

Optimist - central heating and cold winds tend to really dry the skin out at this time of year - HRT can't really sort this.  My skin seems to drink moisturisers through this time of year. Take some Omega 3 supplements or eat more oily fish to help skin hair and joints. HRT can help the skin but it can't fix everything.  Pleased this new patch is working better for you.  DG x

[Optimist]

Hi again, I appear to be having a meltdown. Feel awful day 3 of oestrogen patch and anxious, insecure, feel I'm losing my partner, can't sleep just want it to all go away. Been back at work a week, after a lovely relaxed time off over xmas. Back to feeling tired irritable and didn't want to see my partner over the weekend as felt so low. He's also started Putting the pressure on about sex again and I'm just not feeling it. Feel insecure that he's goading me to finish with him as he's had enough of this mad irrational irritable non sexual woman after 2 years of peri hell. What the hell is the matter with me? I'm tearful and can't sleep feel I've gone back after 4 months of trialling hrt to it not working at all. Joint pain on the patches worse again, been getting really hot again, not sleeping etc. Sorry I'm ranting and probably not making much sense but I feel sick to my stomach that I'm going to lose the good man I've not appreciated to all of this. Feel he's finally had enough.

[Dancinggirl]

Optimist -
I really feel you are pinning all your hopes on HRT working miracles and sorting all your problems - HRT can only do so much.
Have you read Mindfulness by Mark Williams and Danny Penman? You are tying yourself in knots, trying to get things under control.  I'm afraid in my experience it is a range of strategies that will eventually get life on an even keel.
Feeling pressured about sex is the best way to put you off wanting it.  We girls often need to feel relaxed and confident to feel sexy - if you don't feel sexy and attractive then it's very difficult to enjoy sex.
Have a really good look at your lifestyle - can you build in some relaxation time into your day? Do you eat regularly ?
Do you have a good bedtime routine to ensure a better nights sleep - e.g. NO TV in the bedroom, winding down before bed with a hot shower and good book? It's often the little things that can make a big difference.  Dg x